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Author Topic: help with my stats needed  (Read 47417 times)

perry081064

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #105 on: May 28, 2014, 07:14:13 PM »

It might be interesting if you could zip & post the Plink logs from the 2 snapshot montages you have posted in this thread.

Also, ongoing graphs/modem_stats.logs over a few days may highlight any differences between the 2 different modem firmware versions.



From the version number (4.1) as shown in your graphs, it looks like you are still using an older version of the HG612 Modem Stats programs.

v 2.11 is on its way - as soon as I get the relevant debugging logs back from a couple of users currently testing it out & if it appears to be reliable (unless you want me to post the latest programs for you to try out).

thats strange , i checked the updaters and they say they are up to date  :-\ ,  however if you find the time to send them, i will be pleased to try out the latest version  :)

attachment as requested


« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 07:28:00 PM by perry081064 »
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NewtronStar

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #106 on: May 28, 2014, 07:46:48 PM »

Just for fun Perry I'll upload my line stats and you can compare your line with my 850/1000m line still not 100% sure my of true distance to cabinet  :blush:

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perry081064

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #107 on: May 28, 2014, 08:07:02 PM »

Just for fun Perry I'll upload my line stats and you can compare your line with my 850/1000m line still not 100% sure my of true distance to cabinet  :blush:

lol mate , its wasted on me as im still trying to get my head around what all the stats graphs mean myself ... i knew i should have behaved myself in school all those years ago  :blush:

its hard to work yours out as you are still recovering from interleave , but from what i can make out, its not looking too bad for a line of that length .

as for mine , i can make out the cab in the distance at the far end of the field from my upstairs window. google maps says its around 300 meters if i take the road way to it.
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NewtronStar

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #108 on: May 28, 2014, 08:25:41 PM »

lol mate , its wasted on me as im still trying to get my head around what all the stats graphs mean

Perry there is not a 100 page manual that I know for understanding the stats, and the best place to start is on the Kitz forum http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats.htm it's related to ADSL but most is still relevant to FTTC apart from attenuation.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #109 on: May 28, 2014, 09:43:41 PM »


thats strange , i checked the updaters and they say they are up to date  :-\ ,  however if you find the time to send them, i will be pleased to try out the latest version  :)


Ah. I think you are referring to the GUI version.

This is the version I'm using:-
V2.1 created 22/05/2014 20:06:12

Are you on the same version?


However, the updater only updates the GUI, not the logging/graphing programs.

I'll have a think about how best to automate the other program updates (unless Ronski beats me to it - hint, hint!!!  ;)).



Your DS sync speeds & SNR/SNRM seem a shade low for the line length.
It could actually take a detour before it gets to your home.
Mine goes past my home to a footpath joint chamber before coming back to the pole mounted DP directly across the road from me.

Also, the full 20 Mbps US sync speed isn't too often achieved when DS sync speed is as low as yours.


However, the updated firmware tells us that DS Signal Attenuation is worse than Line Attenuation in the D1 band.
That could explain the low(ish) DS sync speed.

The older firmware incorrectly always reported identical DS Line & Signal attenuation levels:-

Old firmware:-
Code: [Select]
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:      21861 kbps         61364 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.4 dBm          13.1 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 1.0 24.4 38.2   N/A 12.8 31.9 50.7
Signal Attenuation(dB): 1.0 24.2 38.0   N/A 12.8 31.9 50.7
        SNR Margin(dB): 6.7 6.4 6.1   N/A 6.8 6.9 6.9
         TX Power(dBm): -5.1 -20.7 6.1   N/A 9.7 7.4 7.2


New Firmware:-
Code: [Select]
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (33,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (41,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
  VDSL Port Details   Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:     22160 kbps     59564 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.4 dBm      13.1 dBm
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 1.2 24.3 38.3   N/A   N/A 12.9 32.0 50.9
Signal Attenuation(dB): 1.2 24.2 38.2   N/A   N/A 17.5 31.8 50.9
SNR Margin(dB): 7.0 7.0 6.3   N/A   N/A 6.4 6.4 6.4
TX Power(dBm): -5.1 -20.7 6.1   N/A   N/A 9.7 7.7 7.2


The likeliest culprit for the increased signal attenuation in the D1 band is crosstalk from other VDSL2 or ADSL connections.
But, there could be other issues such as RFI etc.


You have no doubt spotted the band plan tone changes & removal of the 'shared' tones etc.

Other subtle differences have been noticed with the updated modem firmware such as increased bitswapping.
That was initially thought to indicate a problem.
But it does appear to have improved connection stability for most users, maybe because increased bitswapping to use previously unavailable tones (subject to 'noise' conditions etc.) now causes fewer errors?


A number of users have also seen a return to fatspath connections with the updated firmware following many months of Interleaving.

I saw that for a few weeks until what appears to have been another user being connected that reduced my SNRM & eventually the connection resynced with a low(ish) level of interleaving applied.

The best way to track any such changes is to leave the ongoing stats logging running 24/7 (if that is a viable option).



Anyway, could you post your HG612_stats.ini file to confirm whether or not it is fully ready for the newer programs & user relocated event/error log folders, choice of modem & so on?

If not, it can be manually edited or updated via the GUI (possibly needing the every minute task to be deleted & then recreated).


The latest versions of the programs are attached.


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perry081064

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #110 on: May 28, 2014, 10:19:42 PM »


thats strange , i checked the updaters and they say they are up to date  :-\ ,  however if you find the time to send them, i will be pleased to try out the latest version  :)


Ah. I think you are referring to the GUI version.

This is the version I'm using:-
V2.1 created 22/05/2014 20:06:12

Are you on the same version?

HG612 Modem logs stats viewer & settings editor V2.1 created 20/05/2014 19:36:56
 Version 2.1.5253.9955 running on Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium



However, the updater only updates the GUI, not the logging/graphing programs.

I'll have a think about how best to automate the other program updates (unless Ronski beats me to it - hint, hint!!!  ;)).



Your DS sync speeds & SNR/SNRM seem a shade low for the line length.
It could actually take a detour before it gets to your home.
Mine goes past my home to a footpath joint chamber before coming back to the pole mounted DP directly across the road from me.

i recall the BTO engineer showing me a handheld meter and recall him saying i was around 300 meters from the cab, that also tallies with my google maps ( give or take 50 meters or so)

Also, the full 20 Mbps US sync speed isn't too often achieved when DS sync speed is as low as yours.


However, the updated firmware tells us that DS Signal Attenuation is worse than Line Attenuation in the D1 band.
That could explain the low(ish) DS sync speed.

The older firmware incorrectly always reported identical DS Line & Signal attenuation levels:-

Old firmware:-
Code: [Select]
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:      21861 kbps         61364 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.4 dBm          13.1 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 1.0 24.4 38.2   N/A 12.8 31.9 50.7
Signal Attenuation(dB): 1.0 24.2 38.0   N/A 12.8 31.9 50.7
        SNR Margin(dB): 6.7 6.4 6.1   N/A 6.8 6.9 6.9
         TX Power(dBm): -5.1 -20.7 6.1   N/A 9.7 7.4 7.2


New Firmware:-
Code: [Select]
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (33,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (41,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
  VDSL Port Details   Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:     22160 kbps     59564 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.4 dBm      13.1 dBm
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 1.2 24.3 38.3   N/A   N/A 12.9 32.0 50.9
Signal Attenuation(dB): 1.2 24.2 38.2   N/A   N/A 17.5 31.8 50.9
SNR Margin(dB): 7.0 7.0 6.3   N/A   N/A 6.4 6.4 6.4
TX Power(dBm): -5.1 -20.7 6.1   N/A   N/A 9.7 7.7 7.2


The likeliest culprit for the increased signal attenuation in the D1 band is crosstalk from other VDSL2 or ADSL connections.
But, there could be other issues such as RFI etc.

i would imagine crosstalk is the main issue.  on doing some research, it appears the cab is around 2 years old now and i moved here around this time last year.  lots of people moving away from virgin media because of issues with slow speeds going to BT infinity so prob the cab is getting full.


You have no doubt spotted the band plan tone changes & removal of the 'shared' tones etc.

yes i saw the tone changes , not sure what 'shared' tones are yet , im still learning  :-[

Other subtle differences have been noticed with the updated modem firmware such as increased bitswapping.
That was initially thought to indicate a problem.
But it does appear to have improved connection stability for most users, maybe because increased bitswapping to use previously unavailable tones (subject to 'noise' conditions etc.) now causes fewer errors?

its early days , but i think its giving less errors... also it appears in my logs that i had a resync yesterday that increased the Downstream rate to 51601 Kbps , it stored this in a stat folder called RESYNC and inside the folder is a plink file.


A number of users have also seen a return to fatspath connections with the updated firmware following many months of Interleaving.

I saw that for a few weeks until what appears to have been another user being connected that reduced my SNRM & eventually the connection resynced with a low(ish) level of interleaving applied.

The best way to track any such changes is to leave the ongoing stats logging running 24/7 (if that is a viable option).

yeah, to hell with it... ill leave the server on  ;)


Anyway, could you post your HG612_stats.ini file to confirm whether or not it is fully ready for the newer programs & user relocated event/error log folders, choice of modem & so on?

attached

If not, it can be manually edited or updated via the GUI (possibly needing the every minute task to be deleted & then recreated).


The latest versions of the programs are attached.

thanks, i wont update anything until you have checked the ini  :)
..... and cheers BE1 for all the help , im sure ill get there in the end .

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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #111 on: May 28, 2014, 11:09:34 PM »


HG612 Modem logs stats viewer & settings editor V2.1 created 20/05/2014 19:36:56
 Version 2.1.5253.9955 running on Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium



I have attached my version for you.




Quote
i recall the BTO engineer showing me a handheld meter and recall him saying i was around 300 meters from the cab, that also tallies with my google maps ( give or take 50 meters or so)





The likeliest culprit for the increased signal attenuation in the D1 band is crosstalk from other VDSL2 or ADSL connections.
But, there could be other issues such as RFI etc.


Quote
i would imagine crosstalk is the main issue.  on doing some research, it appears the cab is around 2 years old now and i moved here around this time last year.  lots of people moving away from virgin media because of issues with slow speeds going to BT infinity so prob the cab is getting full.



That could be the reason then.

I lost around 10 Mbps from my 30 Mbps connection over 1100m or so over a period of around 12 months.


You have no doubt spotted the band plan tone changes & removal of the 'shared' tones etc.


Quote
yes i saw the tone changes , not sure what 'shared' tones are yet , im still learning  :-[



The 'shared' tones were when the U0 & D1 band plans overlapped with the older firmware:-

US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)

They are now completely separated:-

US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (33,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)





Quote
its early days , but i think its giving less errors... also it appears in my logs that i had a resync yesterday that increased the Downstream rate to 51601 Kbps , it stored this in a stat folder called RESYNC and inside the folder is a plink file.



Let's hope it remains that way.



Quote
yeah, to hell with it... ill leave the server on  ;)



Even if you only do that for a few days, you'll then at least have a base line for future comparisons.


Anyway, could you post your HG612_stats.ini file to confirm whether or not it is fully ready for the newer programs & user relocated event/error log folders, choice of modem & so on?

Quote
attached



That looks fine.
I can't now recall what Ronski did for the newer GUI version, but I think it had something to do with an error in its reported stats that some users experienced


Quote
thanks, i wont update anything until you have checked the ini  :)
..... and cheers BE1 for all the help , im sure ill get there in the end


It looks like all you need to do is switch to the latest attached GUI & then start using the programs I attached earlier on.

You will get there in the end.
I knew absolutely nothing about how broadband works, errors, SNRM until I got FTTC & saw speeds & stability deteriorate rapidly after the first month of up to 35 Mbps sync speed.

That's why I created the original graphing scripts, later becoming programs, in order to prove there actually was a line fault to Plusnet.

The fault was eventually fixed some 11 months later.

7 months later again was when I first dtarted seeing the effects of crosstalk.

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perry081064

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #112 on: May 28, 2014, 11:54:35 PM »

updated  :)
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #113 on: May 29, 2014, 07:44:44 AM »

That's good.

There's also a new graph in the timestamped subfolder of the Current_Stats folder, named Bits_with_SNR-20140529-0700-HIGH_RES.png

Example attached.
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perry081064

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #114 on: May 29, 2014, 10:39:24 AM »

That's good.

There's also a new graph in the timestamped subfolder of the Current_Stats folder, named Bits_with_SNR-20140529-0700-HIGH_RES.png

Example attached.

found it , heres mine :)

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perry081064

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #115 on: June 04, 2014, 12:25:15 AM »

just an update regarding my stats over the last seven days using the latest firmware for the HG612.

cant see much difference if im honest , ive had just the 1 resync since changing firmware and that was later on in the afternoon. (shows itself in plink log but not on GUI though)

still doesnt want to let go of interleave or even reduce it it seems  :(

most of the time its been raining if that makes any difference in what you see on the graphs, other than that ive nothing else to report.

ill be changing server over the next few days so i cannot continue to log using this one so these will be the last ones until im up and running on the new one.

any feedback is apreciated .
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #116 on: June 04, 2014, 12:39:48 AM »

It's not to easy to say with a lot of confidence, but some of the stats appear to have changed a little since you updated the firmware e.g. DS bitswapping to mention just one of them.

Could you run graphpd for a longer period i.e to also include a few days of stats from the older fimware?

We might then find it easier to spot in a single montage if anything has changed significantly.

 
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perry081064

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #117 on: June 04, 2014, 11:31:45 PM »

It's not to easy to say with a lot of confidence, but some of the stats appear to have changed a little since you updated the firmware e.g. DS bitswapping to mention just one of them.

Could you run graphpd for a longer period i.e to also include a few days of stats from the older fimware?

We might then find it easier to spot in a single montage if anything has changed significantly.

new server isnt coming til tomorrow, so booted the old one back up to get you these.

(updated HG612 firmware was installed on 27th may)

thanks for taking the time to look over them  :)

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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #118 on: June 05, 2014, 12:43:41 AM »

DS bitswapping has increased, which is probably helping.

DS Signal attenuation has worsened, although I don't think it was actually reported correctly in the older firmware version.

US SNRM is stil fluctuating quite a bit & US errored seconds are relatively high(ish), probably as a consequence, although you are syncing at 20 Mbps.

DS Interleaving depth has increased slightly - probably due to the increased sync speed.
If a stable connection is maintained with quite low DS CRC, RSUncorr & DS HEC errors, DLM may relent a little & lower Interleaving depth, also increasing sync speed slightly.

DLM very quickly reduces sync speed & increases Interleaving depth when 'problems' are recorded to it (high error counts etc.), but it tends to take quite a while of stability before it deems that a connection is worthy of trying higher sync speeds etc.
14 days appears to be a typical waiting period (unless DLM has already decided your current sync speeds & Interleaving depth are permanently necessary in order to provide a stable, but fairly high sync speed).


Ifyou don't wish to continue logging 24/7, it may be worth manually running or scheduling the snapshot graphs at the same times every day or couple of days or so in order to detect any changes in performance over a period of time.

Personally, I couldn't cope without knowing my stats are being recorded 24/7 (just in case any issues are causing problems), but that's probably because of the 11 months of intermittent disconnections that I endured, which were initially denied by my ISP as they weren't showing in their own logs.

Thankfully, based on my graphical & raw data 'evidence' they eventually accepted that HG612s on VDSL2 connections can & do resync very quickly, often 'too' quickly to force a new PPPoE session & numerous BTOR Engineer vists were arranged accordingly (all at no cost to me).
Their own connection logs only show PPPoE sessions ending & restarting (or at least that's all they showed back in 2011/2012).


Fingers crossed for you that the updated firmware (in my humble opinion much 'better' firmware) will allow some improvements.


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perry081064

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Re: help with my stats needed
« Reply #119 on: June 05, 2014, 11:56:59 AM »

Thanks BE1  :)

It does take a trained eye to be able to work it all through and my lack of concentration doesnt help iether  :-[.
im getting my head around the graphs , its just learning what and how the results shown show if something is loose, noise , rfi etc... thats going to take a little longer to learn  :-[

initially, without even taking your assessment into account,  i would say this firmware is treating me a lot better than the old one.
its still early days but i suspect interleave will relent eventually though.

rest assured though , im going to be running the stats 24/7 365 once my new (low wattage  ;) ) server is up and running , its being setup as i type and should be online later tonight .
like yourself, i dont think i could go back to not be able to keep an eye on things  ;)

one final point...
its you and the other peeps on this forum that make the whole journey worth while, and for that im extremely grateful.

thanks again.

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