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[sheddyian]

I got a BT Home Hub 3A from a charity shop a few weeks back for £1, and I recently set it up as a wireless access point.

All seemed well at first, but after a day or two the wireless was dropping out, and seemed much slower.

I used InSSIDer to check for wireless channel overlap, and noticed something interesting - it was only using one wireless channel even though I'd set the HH3 to use 40MHz.

When I reset the HH3, it goes back to using 2 channels.  But after a day or two, one of them disappears from the InSSIDer display.

Googling for HH3 wireless seems to show a lot of folk having problems with HH3 wireless.

Is it generally regarded as having poor wireless?

Did any subsequent firmware updates fix this?  I'm running 4.7.5.1.83.8.94.1.11 .

The HH3 isn't unlocked, I didn't need to just to configure it on the LAN as an access point.

Thanks
Ian

[rob]

I used InSSIDer to check for wireless channel overlap, and noticed something interesting - it was only using one wireless channel even though I'd set the HH3 to use 40MHz.

When I reset the HH3, it goes back to using 2 channels.  But after a day or two, one of them disappears from the InSSIDer display.

Out of interest, do you have many other wireless networks nearby?  40MHz channels on 2.4GHz wireless really is a bad idea unless you're the only network that can be seen since there isn't sufficient channel space to accommodate them.  All WiFi certified products must not select 40MHz channels by default on 2.4GHz networks for this reason (it's known as the good neighbour policy) - usually the default is auto in which case 40MHz is chosen if there's no interference otherwise it uses 20MHz channels.  Likewise if it's set to 40MHz the policy states that it should scale back to 20MHz if interference is detected.

My testing of 40MHz channels in a crowded environment (25 or so other networks seen by InSSIDer) gave a much lower throughput than using a 20MHz channel, everything else being equal.  This was purely because of the additional interference the wider channel encountered.  I also noticed the scaling back to 20MHz channels after a period of running on fixed 40MHz (but this was on a different wireless access point, so it's not unique to the HH3).

Also, don't expect that you'll achieve throughput speeds anywhere near manufacturers quoted speeds (e.g. 300Mbps) as you won't.  See my post here http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13769.msg260900#msg260900 for a more detailed technical description of why.

[sheddyian]

Out of interest, do you have many other wireless networks nearby?  40MHz channels on 2.4GHz wireless really is a bad idea unless you're the only network that can be seen since there isn't sufficient channel space to accommodate them.  All WiFi certified products must not select 40MHz channels by default on 2.4GHz networks for this reason (it's known as the good neighbour policy) - usually the default is auto in which case 40MHz is chosen if there's no interference otherwise it uses 20MHz channels.  Likewise if it's set to 40MHz the policy states that it should scale back to 20MHz if interference is detected.

My testing of 40MHz channels in a crowded environment (25 or so other networks seen by InSSIDer) gave a much lower throughput than using a 20MHz channel, everything else being equal.  This was purely because of the additional interference the wider channel encountered.  I also noticed the scaling back to 20MHz channels after a period of running on fixed 40MHz (but this was on a different wireless access point, so it's not unique to the HH3).

Also, don't expect that you'll achieve throughput speeds anywhere near manufacturers quoted speeds (e.g. 300Mbps) as you won't.  See my post here http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13769.msg260900#msg260900 for a more detailed technical description of why.

That's interesting.

My TalkTalk HG533 seems to default to using two wireless channels, I just assumed that this would be normal behaviour.
The BT HH3A didn't, but I selected it, and for a while InSSIDer was showing it using two channels

Now I'm consistently getting only one channel, despite reboots of HH3 and PC, and Windows reports the connected speed as 65Mbs.

I now can't seem to get it to use 2 channels again, even though 40MHz is selected - maybe it is interference then? 

Although I don't have a great many networks nearby, usually between 3 and 5 in number.  (Often all heaped onto channel 1!)

I'll turn the wireless off on the TalkTalk Modem to free up some space and see what happens when I reboot the HH3 once more.

Ian

[edited to correct my mistake with router model]

[roseway]

My TalkTalk HG612 seems to default to using two wireless channels, I just assumed that this would be normal behaviour.

Er.. the HG612 doesn't have WiFi.   That's in the router.

[rob]

My TalkTalk HG612 seems to default to using two wireless channels, I just assumed that this would be normal behaviour.
The BT HH3A didn't, but I selected it, and for a while InSSIDer was showing it using two channels

The good neighbour policy is mandatory to achieve WiFi Alliance certification, but how many consumer wireless products actually achieve this and how many are subsequently modified by firmware updates after the certification to remove such limitations is anybody's guess.  Standards and requirements are always pushed in good faith, but there's usually as many companies and/or products breaking them as there are adhering to them.  It could be that the HH3 is a better confirming product in this regard.

I now can't seem to get it to use 2 channels again, even though 40MHz is selected - maybe it is interference then? 

Although I don't have a great many networks nearby, usually between 3 and 5 in number.  (Often all heaped onto channel 1!)

The one thing I'm not sure of is how many channels need to be present before the good neighbour policy should be enforced, or whether again this is dependent on the product in question.  For example I had a TP-Link wireless router that was happy to start up with 40MHz channels despite clashing with 10-16 other networks (although it would always drop back to 20MHz at some point after), but trying the same with hostapd on a Linux machine in the same place would always refuse to allow 40MHz channels, citing too many other networks detected.

Channels 1, 6 and 11 are regarded as the preferred channels on 2.4GHz so if you've got a cluster on channel 1 then try again on channel 11 (if I remember correctly, 40MHz on channel 11 uses channel 7 as the secondary channel).

[sheddyian]

My TalkTalk HG612 seems to default to using two wireless channels, I just assumed that this would be normal behaviour.

Er.. the HG612 doesn't have WiFi.   That's in the router.

Oops, mistake!

I meant to say the TalkTalk HG533, which definately does have two wireless channels.

I was previously using the HG533 as the wireless access point, with a BT HG612 doing the ADSL2+, that worked extremely well except that I couldn't get the TalkTalk multicast TV to work through it.  Which is why I'm now back with the TT HG533 doing the ADSL2+ and the wireless coverage from it's location is poor, hence looking for something else to provide more conveniently located wireless.  Had hoped the HH3 would do this, but it's not being very reliable.

Ian

[sheddyian]

The one thing I'm not sure of is how many channels need to be present before the good neighbour policy should be enforced, or whether again this is dependent on the product in question.  For example I had a TP-Link wireless router that was happy to start up with 40MHz channels despite clashing with 10-16 other networks (although it would always drop back to 20MHz at some point after), but trying the same with hostapd on a Linux machine in the same place would always refuse to allow 40MHz channels, citing too many other networks detected.

Channels 1, 6 and 11 are regarded as the preferred channels on 2.4GHz so if you've got a cluster on channel 1 then try again on channel 11 (if I remember correctly, 40MHz on channel 11 uses channel 7 as the secondary channel).

Ah, thanks, I'll try that.  I'd chosen channel 3 originally, as the TalkTalk HG533 was using some on the higher numbers.  Will switch off the HG533 wireless and move the HH3 to channel 11 and see what happens.

Ian