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[HenryVee]

Hello folks,

What a great site! I wonder if I might pick your brains about something?

I've had a long long issue with my Broadband and telephone line for something in the region of 10 months.

Intermittently my broadband drops and although it comes back straight away some days this can be an on off situation for hours on end and it's really frustrating. At the same time as the broadband dropping my telephone line quality is awful, which led the most recent Open Reach engineer (the 4th I've had at my house) to suggest it could be a REIN fault but he couldn't investigate as he was only there to check the line. Interestingly he said the quality of my line was excellent. There is never interference on the line when they are at my house...

Anyway being a pragmatic chap I've read up on REIN faults and armed with a wee tranny tuned to roughly 612 I've been doing some testing. It would seem quite a few things in my house give off a bit of interference! For example when I place the tranny near my big TV it blares out a lot of cracking which I assume is showing me there is interference. Additionally though there is a fair bit coming from my mac book and telly up the stairs. Most things to be honest.....I think if it had been one piece of equipment I might have been happier.

I was wandering though. The BT home hub was maybe only 6 feet from the TV before. Do you think if I move it as far away from the telly as possible that could help? Do I need to replace the telly? It was expensive! Also my xbox sits under the TV and is wired to the home hub. Does this close proximity limit the effectiveness of me moving the home hub further away?

Sorry if these questions are a bit remedial. I'm still learning :-)

Thanks in advance

Henry

[Black Sheep]

Hello folks,

What a great site! I wonder if I might pick your brains about something?

I've had a long long issue with my Broadband and telephone line for something in the region of 10 months.

Intermittently my broadband drops and although it comes back straight away some days this can be an on off situation for hours on end and it's really frustrating. At the same time as the broadband dropping my telephone line quality is awful, which led the most recent Open Reach engineer (the 4th I've had at my house) to suggest it could be a REIN fault but he couldn't investigate as he was only there to check the line. Interestingly he said the quality of my line was excellent. There is never interference on the line when they are at my house...

Anyway being a pragmatic chap I've read up on REIN faults and armed with a wee tranny tuned to roughly 612 I've been doing some testing. It would seem quite a few things in my house give off a bit of interference! For example when I place the tranny near my big TV it blares out a lot of cracking which I assume is showing me there is interference. Additionally though there is a fair bit coming from my mac book and telly up the stairs. Most things to be honest.....I think if it had been one piece of equipment I might have been happier.

I was wandering though. The BT home hub was maybe only 6 feet from the TV before. Do you think if I move it as far away from the telly as possible that could help? Do I need to replace the telly? It was expensive! Also my xbox sits under the TV and is wired to the home hub. Does this close proximity limit the effectiveness of me moving the home hub further away?

Sorry if these questions are a bit remedial. I'm still learning :-)

Thanks in advance

Henry

I'm a REIN trained engineer, and BT have recently run what they call a 'First look REIN' course for most broadband engineers. I have personally seen my REIN cases rise, 3-fold ............ most of which are un-warranted.

The clue is in the bit above that I've underlined, if your phone calls are suffering in any way (Noisy), then the chances are you have a 'Network fault'. This same fault can give the symptoms of REIN.

Also, the MW radio trick can give more 'False positives' than you could imagine. I have the official 444B tester (a glorified radio), and this gives the same 'False positives'. 

[HenryVee]

Thanks for replying. If the sound quality on the line is intermittently bad can it still be a network error? Are they easy to spot?

I've had 3 broadband engineers at my house already and that didn't fix it :-(

Is a network fault something I could fix myself?

[burakkucat]

At the same time as the broadband dropping my telephone line quality is awful,

Could you give us a brief description of "awful", please? For example, clicking, buzzes, hums, whistles, white-noise, echoes, rushing water-like noises?

The term "network fault" relates to problems with the underlying infrastructure -- the metallic pathway over which both the telephony and the broadband services are carried.

Have you performed a QLT (quiet line test)? If not, please do so and let us know the result.

Finally, from whom do you obtain your (a) broadband service (b) telephony service? Having seen mention of a BT HH, above, I suspect that it is Beattie who provides you with both services. 

[HenryVee]

It's mainly a crackling noise when the line is awful and there is sometimes a hiss too. I have done a quiet line test and it came back as fine.

I should say that most of the time my line is fine and a few checks on the line by various BT engineers have shown the line to be fine (at my end as well as theirs)

I should say though that most of the time the line is fine, it's just a few hours during the evening (although not exclusively) that the line is really bad.

I moved the modem as far away from the TV as I could last night and the line has been fine although that doesn't necessarily mean anything as the line might be fine anyway. Yes BT are my provider. I live ina new build Barrett estate.

Thanks in advance

Henry

[JGO]

Before Black Sheep or B'kat ask you - are things better using  the modem in the test socket (behind the master socket) ? As you are in a a new house you should have one, although it can be a PITA haywiring a temporary connection and it blocks the 'phone so try it when you expect interference. 

[burakkucat]

When the words "new build" are mentioned in association with internal (telephony) wiring, I get a very peculiar tingling sensation in my whiskers . . . 

I just hope that your property is sufficiently new so as not to be fitted with an XNTE.

Yes, please do as JGO suggests and now experiment with all the internal wiring disconnected, by directly connecting into the "test socket" at the NTE5/A.

[HenryVee]

Hi folks,

Thanks for the responses. The house is about 3 1/2 years old. Yes it does have a master socket. Regrettably I still have the same intermittant problems even using the test socket.

[JGO]

Hi folks,

Regrettably I still have the same intermittent problems even using the test socket.

Don't regret it; it is a step forward.
As I read it you have dismissed your phone extension wiring as a major pickup aerial and also for pickup of stuff radiated by the 50Hz power wires. That would suggest pickup on the BT lines. but you don't have overhead wires in a new estate (or do you ?  )                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

[HenryVee]

I've no overhead wires in my estate.

I know this isn't exactly scientific but I drove round my estate with my radio tuned into 612 AM and I couldn't locate any interferance. I did this even when my phone and internet were going through a bad spell.

In my conversation with the most recent open reach engineer he said that if it was REIN it could be anything between the exchange and my house that's causing it.

My area is getting fibre optic soon and I asked if upgrading to it would fix the problem (I would do this but I confess paying BT even more money when they have failed to fix my existing problem is a bit galling).

The chap said that fibre optic wiring isn't effected by the interferance so it would possibly fix the issue unless the problem is between the box and my house.

[burakkucat]

From what you have so far explained and the description the "awful" condition when it appears, I am prepared to tentatively suggest that it is not a REIN fault but a joint in the metallic pathway that is beginning to show HR (or semi-conducting) tendencies.

Of course I have based my tentative diagnosis upon what you have described . . . To be certain, I would need to have physical access to the pair and connect various items of test equipment thereto . . . 

[JGO]

My area is getting fibre optic soon and I asked if upgrading to it would fix the problem (I would do this but I confess paying BT even more money when they have failed to fix my existing problem is a bit galling).

The chap said that fibre optic wiring isn't effected by the interference so it would possibly fix the issue unless the problem is between the box and my house.

Yes, that is the big if. Since FFTC covers a wider bandwidth ( real bandwidth in Hz) it is more susceptible so by no means a certain cure.

If the problem is a HR joint then an incoming call can temporarily cure it,  try a ring-back test (dial 17070 and choose ring back)   

[HenryVee]

Burrakucat,

Wouldn't an engineer be able to to detect that kind of fault? The 4 previous engineers and couldn't detect anything. Also the 3rd engineer did change my line anyway, which is why I am thinking it could be REiN as 2 damaged line would be too much of a cooincidence? Apologies by the way I know I didn't tell you this to start!

JGO thanks for this. I'll give it a go next time I get an issue. How temporary a fix would this be? Just the duration of the test?

Thanks again.

[JGO]

JGO thanks for this. I'll give it a go next time I get an issue. How temporary a fix would this be? Just the duration of the test?

You are really asking how long is a piece of string ! An "HR joint" can be slight, or corroded up beyond recovery.  I would hope it lasted an hour or two so you can prove the point.

[Black Sheep]

Burrakucat,

Wouldn't an engineer be able to to detect that kind of fault? The 4 previous engineers and couldn't detect anything. Also the 3rd engineer did change my line anyway, which is why I am thinking it could be REiN as 2 damaged line would be too much of a cooincidence? Apologies by the way I know I didn't tell you this to start!

JGO thanks for this. I'll give it a go next time I get an issue. How temporary a fix would this be? Just the duration of the test?

Thanks again.

Too vague is the information for any kind of definitive answer.

The "damaged line" in all probability, is going through the same faulty underground joint as the original line was. That is why 'Pair Changes' (IE: Just swopping your phone and broadband onto a different pair of wires), is not a 'True' fix. The chances are the new 'Line' will start to corrode just as the first did ??

Take it from me, if you have audible noise on your phone line (Crackling/hissing), then it isn't REIN that is affecting your circuit.

<Disclaimer> You may have secondary issues caused by REIN (Doubt it), but the primary concern is your faulty MPF (Pair of wires).