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[JGO]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/10741243/Government-pays-Microsoft-5.5m-to-extend-Windows-XP-support.html

[Ronski]

"It is an excellent example of collaborative purchasing and demonstrates Crown Commercial Service’s new joined-up approach to commercial arrangements to achieve best value for the taxpayer.”

Shouldn't that read "This is an excellent example of how we dragged our feet, never upgraded our computers and now have to spend £5.5 million which could of been avoided by better planning!"

[Berrick]

Ouch!

Shouldn't that read "This is an excellent example of how we dragged our feet, never upgraded our computers and now have to spend £5.5 million which could of been avoided by better planning!"

To be fair when it comes to large government IT infrastructures such as the NHS, DWP etc its not just about "dragging their feet" but other controlling factors which people aren't aware of or fail to consider.

For example

• The complex outsourcing agreements the government has in place with companies such as Altos, HP, Fujitsu (Who in turn outsource what they don't want to deal with to third parties). They all want to maximize the revenue they can generate before they charge top whack for upgrading
• The very large scale of the IT infrastructure, thousands of PC's, Printers and servers mean you cant just install Windows 7 the next day.
  
  • What if the printers aren't supported in the new operating system?
  • Will the PC's need replacing or upgrading?
  • What if the OS on the servers needs upgrading because the new OS for the PC's causes problems, will we then need to upgrade or replace the servers?
  • Will all these changes impact on the network infrastucture meaning this will need upgrading.
  • What about future Goals?

• Bespoke software, that little bit of software which everyone has forgotten about till they try to upgrade then find it is the show stopper
• Cost and politics. I wont say to much about this as the guys in GCHQ will forward it to HM government and I don't want to disappear

[Ronski]

It's been two years since MS announced end of support for XP.  The end of MS products is well advertised, XP has had it support extended long past it original date, if things take time to plan then that should be allowed for, they have simply been dragging their feet and putting things off.

Have a read of this article about the met

I agree that there is some software that it may not be possible to use on newer operating systems, but this is not the case for the majority of systems. It's well known that many Government departments still run IE6 which is ludicrous.

[HPsauce]

now have to spend £5.5 million which could of been avoided by better planning!"

Alternatively:
By extending the life of thousands of solid functional systems at a low price we have saved the public many times that by not procuring unnecessary new equipment, and also been more "green". 

The end of support is of course only the end of "free" support to people who are paying nothing towards the service. 

[sevenlayermuddle]

I see this as good news.

Few things frustrate me more than the myth that computers somehow 'wear out' such that you need to buy a new one every few years.  In fact of course, providing you never accept software updates other than essential bug fixes, the computer will continue to perform as well as it did the day you bought it.

I have an XP system in daily use, which continues to perform well, good to know that might continue, for some at least.

The other MS OS in (very occasional) use by me is Win 95 which also works as well as the day it was delivered but moreover is, I argue, much safer from virii, trojans and other exploits, as it is such a small target that the bad guys don't  bother to attack it any more.

[oldfogy]

Not really going OT but I notice MS have already started downgrading.

Yesterday for me Google Maps worked as it always has, but tonight I get a message stating I am now using the 'Lite' version because it is not suitable for XP.

And don't forget, anyone still using Microsoft Security Essential (MSE) needs to remove it and install a different antivurus program.
Not really sure what is happening with regards to MS Firewall.

[HPsauce]

And don't forget, anyone still using Microsoft Security Essential (MSE) needs to remove it and install a different antivurus program.

What on earth makes you say that?  Reference please.

Microsoft have publicly stated that they will continue to maintain existing installations of it for some time (a year at least is the industry guess) for XP, BUT you will now longer be able to download and install it after the XP support cutoff date.
See: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/end-support-help

It does nag you about the end of XP support though. 

[Ronski]

Few things frustrate me more than the myth that computers somehow 'wear out' such that you need to buy a new one every few years.  In fact of course, providing you never accept software updates other than essential bug fixes, the computer will continue to perform as well as it did the day you bought it.

Not strictly true, if we discount mechanical wear and tear, component failure, overheating caused by systems which are clogged with dust because they've never been cleaned, then we are still left with a system that slows down due to the detritus that builds up over time. We all know how fast an old system becomes after we wipe it and reinstall XP again, and this works well if we don't want to use modern programs which demand more resources (often because of poor programming). Also if we need to use new features, and if we want our systems secure then we need to use newer versions of programs, so we can't just leave the system as it was years ago.

At work we have just completely upgraded our computer systems, for two reasons, in no particular order.

• All the desktop systems were running XP
• The hardware was around 5 years old - so component failure was more likely

The server recently had a hard drive fail, and with the end of XP support we decided to buy in new machines (using existing monitor/keyboards/mice) which I specced, and with Windows 7 Professional. These PC's cost £407+vat, have Intel SSD drives and use a fraction of the power of the older ones, we no longer have a server (I'm rather dubious on that - using the cloud instead) so there are substantial power savings, as well as the cost of the new systems being tax deductable. They are very quick, all my programs open in seconds, where as previously I'd log on and come back five minutes later, they are also quicker whilst actually using them so I'm more productive. I actually went for a Intel Pentium Dual Core G3220 processor, rather than a i3 as this allowed me to get 180GB SSD instead of a smaller one for the same price, but I was surprised at just how quick this budget CPU is, running Super Pi (only uses 1 core) at 1 million decimal places was almost as quick as my home PC which is an i5 750 clocked at 4Ghz, which is now 5 years old apart from the SSD. My PC case at work is now 14 years old, I just upgraded the internals on mine :-) with the old bits being donated to a friends 12 year old son to build his first PC which I'm helping him with.

All the old PC's have been recycled and had Vista installed (they were previously downgraded to XP) and are being given to members of staff.

[Blackeagle]

All the old PC's have been recycled and had Vista installed (they were previously downgraded to XP) and are being given to members of staff.

Boy, you must really hate your staff !!!! 

[tonyappuk]

I fully support 7LM's view that solid state electronics don't wear out. Certainly things like hard drives and monitors fail but they can be replaced. I still have XP available in my multiboot system although I use Win 7 normally now. This was forced on me by so many friends and colleagues buying new machines preinstalled with it but XP is still available and occasionally used when drivers for old equipment I have are not available for Win 7. I never take MS updates and run a free antivirus plus firewall. Of course this is not really practical for a business and they are forced to upgrade by the commercial pressures exerted by Microsoft's continuous "improvements" and warnings about possible flaws in their software and also their duty to their customers. Of course I have the very rare melt down but with regular backups available nothing too disastrous for a retired old fogey. I understand the need for Microsoft to make money but I don't feel the need to contribute!
Tony

[Berrick]

Word of caution (off topic)!

All the old PC's have been recycled and had Vista installed (they were previously downgraded to XP) and are being given to members of staff

I hope your company has a disclaimer that the employees have to sign absolving your company from any H&S aspect etc etc relating to these computers. Sellers of electrical items must make sure they are safe.

Most of the companies I dealt with which allowed their old computers to go to employees stopped the practice, only selling or passing them onto re cycling companies because the H&S responsibility is then passed to the new company.

[Ronski]

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll shall mention it to the H & S manager,  he can also PAT test them if he wants  to.  They are being given,  not sold to the employees and I've also erased the HDD.

[Blackeagle]

I fully support 7LM's view that solid state electronics don't wear out.

I'm sorry, but that simply isn't the case. Solid state electronics can and do wear out over time.  If they didn't, my career for the last 30 odd years wouldn't have existed.  Which isn't to say that some hardware can last for decades with no issues because it can and does.  A lot of it comes down to the quality of the components used.  Cheapo capacitors for instance.  I can't remember how many Thomson Sky boxes I've rebuilt the power supplies on because of failed (cheap) capacitors, but it's a lot !!

Resistors can go open circuit, or change value, transistors can fail, go short circuit or open circuit as can diodes.  Granted modern kit is much more reliable than say 20 years ago but failures can and do occur. 

Apologies for being off topic .

[Ronski]

Boy, you must really hate your staff !!!! 

LOL, I did feel a little bit guilty  , but it is Vista Business, fully updated and I've even fitted wi-fi cards they've paid for and installed their choice of anti virus. I suspect for what they are using it for they won't have any problems, the one that used to affect me the most was the network transfer speed of file copies. They can always install their choice of Windows or Linux, but I doubt any of them will.