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[Black Sheep]

In the interests of balance and fairness, the following comment ….. '4+ engineers failed to diagnose my issue as well, is a nightmare dealing with them' is that individuals personal experience, and is a known anti-BT protagonist.

We are not all a 'nightmare' to deal with, and of course certain minuscule faults are incredibly difficult to locate and fix for engineers. Yes, there are issues with some engineering staff, we all know that, but there are decent ones out there as well. We need to be able to see the fault though in order to fix it.

[Chrysalis]

Whats wrong with manually checking junction box, joints, dropwire, swapping pairs etc. just to see if it helps tho? Do you really need a mini computer to tell you where it is?

The openreach exec office told me the engineer's should have at the very least swapped out my nte5.

My comment regarding engineers is not so much them not doing anything but rather the way they come to fob off me the customer.

So the first engineer was really agressive.
The rest more polite but claiming 80mbit isnt possible on the product and act all confused when I mention attainable rates.  Thats what I meant by a nightmare.

Of course this is my own personal experience from engineers in my area, since it seems policy varies wildly from area to area.

I hope you wasnt reffering to me about the fault on a attenuation increase of 0.3 :p, my last fault was reported because I had interleaving on a previously stable line alongside 40mbit speeds on a line with an estimate of over 70mbit and even with crosstalk speeds of nearly 70mbit.  So I wouldnt call that a nitpicking fault.

But end of the day it shouldnt be a battle with customers, it benefits everyone (Except maybe BT shareholders) if openreach took the approach of the customer is always right and to go out their way to look and fix faults.  It says a lot when someone on here is scared to post a fault.  Which is the result of openreach having policies that deter fault reporting.  I know you dont make those policies but they exist.

To make it clear I am not anti BT, I am anti bad service, you please need to be able to accept criticism of your company without treating as personal offense.  If you cannot then you cannot recognise the flaws.

[Black Sheep]

"But end of the day it shouldnt be a battle with customers, it benefits everyone (Except maybe BT shareholders) if openreach took the approach of the customer is always right and to go out their way to look and fix faults.  It says a lot when someone on here is scared to post a fault.  Which is the result of openreach having policies that deter fault reporting".

Having been in a customer-facing industry all my working life (Firstly as an electrician, secondly in my current role), I can quite categorically state the EU is NOT always right, and thank the lord BT don't build their business model around this Victorian-esque quote.

There is another old saying, about 'Walking a mile in another man's shoes'. Your idea's, which sound fantastic in the written word to the average layman, are fanciful and impossible to apply to a company of our size.

Please believe me when I say I don't take the criticism personally, I feel I have to respond to sweeping generalisations made by a small percentage of individuals, who have no idea whatsoever of how we work. You can maybe pick up snippets here and there from various forums, or desk-jockeys in an exec office who will say anything to get you off the phone. but there is no substitute for the real thing, and I see and live it every day. I have often criticized our operational procedures, if you take the trouble to go back over all my posts. But, I know exactly where the good and the bad lay within our organisation because I work there, you can only comment on your own one personal experience.

For info .... it wasn't yourself I was referring to regarding the 0.3dB drop analogy, but suffice to say that cr4p does go on and that is why the EU is NOT always right.

[NewtronStar]

if you want to try something quickly get a nte5 of ebay and swap it out.

I think i'll avoid the NTE5 swap out incase this causes me a £150 charge from openreach if and when they need to investicate my issue, what I will be doing this weekend is a quiet line test using a corded telephone in the Test socket and then going to remove the MKII filtered faceplate and install the original MKI back inplace and see how it all looks it's probably a waste of time as it's a possible HR fault 

[burakkucat]

You could, however, take a note of the markings on the front of your NTE5/A. The original "big T in a circle"? The "piper"? The "connected world"? That would give us an idea of its age.

Also, take a look at how the incoming pair is connected at the NTE5/A. Three screw terminals (marked A, B & E)? Two screw terminals? IDCs? Again, that would provide further dating evidence.

Why an interest in the age of the NTE5/A? The original NTE5/As (one of which is installed in The Cattery) will have a gas-discharge over-voltage protection device connected across the pair. Those gas-discharge devices degrade with age and, as a result, have a detrimental effect on a broadband signal. (A simple preventative procedure is to remove the gas-discharge device.) Modern NTE5/As do not have an over-voltage protection device fitted.

[NewtronStar]

my nte5 is coming up to 2 years old as it was installed by or engineer on fttc activation day and he was very friendly.

[burakkucat]

Ah, right. So probably the version prior to the current incarnation.

We can rule out any "age effect" but we can not discount the possibility -- as Chrys has implied -- that it might have "gone faulty". 

[Chrysalis]

black sheep thanks for confirming it wasnt me, and dont worry about my experiences I am just one person

newtron if you worried about fees, and the NTE5 turns out to not be the problem then just swap it back prior to any visit.

[NewtronStar]

I'll have to think about whether to purchase NTE5 and fit it as I would hate to mess it up, would need to see a wiring diagram for the most up to dated BT Open reach NTE5  first before getting me hands dirty 

[burakkucat]

I don't have a copy of the circuit diagram to paw but it is absurdly simple. 

The incoming pair is connected via IDCs (marked A & B) and there is a series connected 1.8 uF capacitor & 470 kOhm resistor between those terminals. The junction of the capacitor and resistor is from whence the "bell wire" originates. 

[Black Sheep]

As B*Cat has pointed out, the connection to the NTE5 is something a 10yr old child could perform. By that, I mean it doesn't mean which way round you connect the wires, there are only two connections to be made, and there are only two slots in which the wires could terminate. Stupidly simple (Unless you're surname is Kelly or Quinn  ).

The tricky bit, if we are really going to be picky, is that if you don't use the correct tool (IDC) to terminate the said wires, you could inadvertently end up with a fault similar to Chrysallis ??

I have probably had 4 faults over the last month alone, down to bad terminations on the new NTE5, and these were made with the correct IDC tool !! The problem is, the indications at the time are totally invisible. By that I mean there is no audible noise on the landline, and the router will synchronise. The problem is the incrementing errors that occur causing DLM to act aggressively.

I have always said I prefer a good old screw ……… termination, that is.  You can physically see and check the quality of the connection. Alas, I'm deemed to be a dinosaur in my company's eyes. 

[NewtronStar]

Yes black sheep I prefer a good old screw than a punch down myself, as I found that out when punching down the MKII terminals for the data socket cable as it took a couple of attempts to get it to terminate as the core (metal) is some what thicker than most.

Most likely down to my inexperience with the Kd-1 punch down tool, now I have a question here, once the 2 wires are removed from IDC socket should I snip off the old punched down part of wire ? reason for asking as I am going to run out of spare wire 

[Black Sheep]

I would personally, as it will be weaker than the unused wire. All we do if we are 'running out of wire', is crimp another pair on to make it longer. Use some of the spare wires within the cable if needed, it doesn't matter that they are a different colour, we all do it. 

[NewtronStar]

I would personally, as it will be weaker than the unused wire.

Thats why I think I need to go back to MKII faceplate Data socket terminals as I kept them unsnipped after removing MKI wires and punched them down again, you see I have a funny feeling after MKII was installed this is when the HR fault started to appear (errors in the upstream when telephone rings) and or I disturbed the the NTE5 terminals, it will be one of those weekend jobs to see if I caused this or not but still the RFI was rife before MKII install so I still think the possible fault is ouside my premises !

and thanks for all the advice BC Chry and BS

[NewtronStar]

Results looking good, removed MKII faceplate checked NTE5 IDC terminals and gave them a punch, placed MKI back inplace snipped off the ends off the Data Extension wires and this time the KD-1 made a nice clunk&snap sound on each terminal, booted up HG612 and DSLstats showing an increase in US and DS Bearer,rang the house phone from mobile and ZERO US CRC's spikes just need to screw in those two screws and wait and see 

Well when I say Zero the spikes have decreased a lot you can see in this graph the call before I replaced the MK1 and wire being snipped and fully punched down it was over 12 CRC's US errors now it's under 1 US CRC