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[art37]

I have been on a stable FTTC connection for over a year. Last week, I changed my VDSL modem/router and I got a DSL synchronization but no ISP authentication (CHAPs failure unit xxx). After trying 3 routers in various configurations, with and without the BT modem, I ended up with an intermittent PPPoE connection on a laptop connected to the BT modem. My ISP then raised a fault after asking me to try various log ins etc. I then reconnected my modem/router and at 3pm got a brief reconnection for 30 mins at about 5pm and again at 9pm. I got a stable connection on 80/17 at about 1.15pm last Saturday. It has been stable since but my profile hasn't changed despite having max attainable speeds of 102/28.

This afternoon after a brief disconnect the CHAPS problems returned. I disconnected everything and a tried another direct PPPoE direction from the OR modem to a laptop: no luck. Thirty minutes after reconnecting everything again, my connection came back.

My ISP has now arranged an OR engineer visit to carry out a 'lift and shift'. Should I be worried about charges as I suspect that the connection will be up and running when he/she calls? I have a printed log showing a run of CHAPS failures.

[waltergmw]

Hi Art,

I friendly Openreach engineer told me last week there had been a lot of what he called ppp failures in Surrey.
Perhaps BS might comment - please ?

Kind regards,
Walter

[Black Sheep]

We have a system called IRaM's (Incident Reporting and Management). I have access to it but have never had the time or inclination to learn how to navigate around it. It's hard enough managing the systems that I use on a daily basis. 

I have had a quick look, but there's nothing that jumps out at me I'm afraid. For example, it doesn't mention a County per-se, it will mention individual towns and city's within that County, though. As I say, I haven't got time to trawl through the mountain of stuff on that site, at this point.

One thing that has caught a few engineers out in the past though, is when they have had cause to install a new Hub4/5, or replace a faulty one. Synch will be attained but no PPP Session. It ends up with hours spent calling our NGA Helpdesk, possible 'Lift & Shift', or even going as far as flagging it up to BT Wholesale's Tier 2 support.
Usually, all not necessary. A simple 'Forced re-set' resolves the issue by holding in the reset button on the back with a needle or something similar, for approximately a minute.

I'm not saying this is what will cure this OP's problem, just generalising for 'lookers on'. 

[art37]

Thanks guys. I am now on the BT modem plus router ( as requested by the ISP) and it took about 5 minutes for this combination* to get a CHAPs authentication. I am not sure that this is progress. I am still worried that an engineer will test the line and charge for NFF. My ISP has not as yet given me any confidence that despite being provided with router showing all the CHAPs' failures that they will see off any pass through charge.

* combinations tried all with CHAPS/connection failures but successful connection after hours in some cases and minutes in others

Laptop/BT modem - PPPoE
Fritz!Box 7390 VDSL modem mode
BT modem + Fritz!Box 7390 bridged router mode
Fritz!Box 7490 VDSL modem mode
BT modem + Fritz!Box 7490 bridged router mode
BT modem + airport express

[burakkucat]

As it is possible for the "system" to get itself "well confused", there is one trick that I suggest trying . . . power down and disconnect the device from the incoming line and leave it disconnected overnight, at the minimum.

Just out of interest, who is your ISP?

To be honest, I cannot see what an Openreach engineer could do. Openreach are only responsible for the metallic pathway between the cabinet MSAN and your modem. Authentication,  for the PPPoE session, is an ISP process.

[art37]

I am with Zen. For the past year my FTTC connection has been pretty well rock solid with a max profile on a 80/20 connection. I am now down to 62.15/17 profile on the Zen portal (despite a speedtest showing a profile of 62.15/20). Once I get a connection, then it will remain up after CHAPs issues ranging from a hour to only minutes sort themselves out. Zen say that they are running more tests but an engineer is still booked for a 'lift and shift' on Monday. Sadly, I am away from home so I cannot turn the whole caboodle off - I can though monitor my router stats remotely.

Edit: I should have added that Zen say that they are not seeing the failed attempts at CHAPS authentication on their systems. I confess having spoken to so many different people in Zen Support the messages back are getting somewhat confused. My advancing years may also be a factor!!

[burakkucat]

Thank you for that information.

Being one of the more reliable ISPs, I am sure that Zen must have their reasons for booking an Openreach engineering appointment. I hope Zen will also be willing to absorb the cost of that visit and not pass it on to yourself. 

[art37]

Thank you for that information.

Being one of the more reliable ISPs, I am sure that Zen must have their reasons for booking an Openreach engineering appointment. I hope Zen will also be willing to absorb the cost of that visit and not pass it on to yourself. 

I agree. Up until now Zen's network has been first-class. I have now cancelled the engineer's visit as the burden of proof has been passed back to me. The connection was up for 24 hours so I carried out a brief internet disconnect and sent Zen this:

14.03.14   13:06:17   Internet connection established successfully. IP address: xx.xx.xx.xx  DNS server: 212.23.6.100 and 212.23.3.100, Gateway: 62.3.84.25, Broadband PoP: bras-red1.bm-th-B20C4110500113
14.03.14   12:57:05   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 19611
14.03.14   12:51:12   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 19477
14.03.14   12:42:26   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 13750
14.03.14   12:41:25   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 339
14.03.14   12:40:24   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 10057
14.03.14   12:39:23   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 16647
14.03.14   12:38:22   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 3140
14.03.14   12:38:21   Internet connection cleared.

I am not a happy bunny. I will try a 24 hour disconnect as that at least is free.

[burakkucat]

14.03.14   13:06:17   Internet connection established successfully. IP address: xx.xx.xx.xx  DNS server: 212.23.6.100 and 212.23.3.100, Gateway: 62.3.84.25, Broadband PoP: bras-red1.bm-th-B20C4110500113
14.03.14   12:57:05   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 19611
14.03.14   12:51:12   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 19477
14.03.14   12:42:26   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 13750
14.03.14   12:41:25   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 339
14.03.14   12:40:24   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 10057
14.03.14   12:39:23   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 16647
14.03.14   12:38:22   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 3140
14.03.14   12:38:21   Internet connection cleared.

With reference to the above, were you using an integrated modem/router (make? model?) or separate modem (make? model?) and router (make? model?)?

[art37]

14.03.14   13:06:17   Internet connection established successfully. IP address: xx.xx.xx.xx  DNS server: 212.23.6.100 and 212.23.3.100, Gateway: 62.3.84.25, Broadband PoP: bras-red1.bm-th-B20C4110500113
14.03.14   12:57:05   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 19611
14.03.14   12:51:12   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 19477
14.03.14   12:42:26   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 13750
14.03.14   12:41:25   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 339
14.03.14   12:40:24   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 10057
14.03.14   12:39:23   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 16647
14.03.14   12:38:22   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 3140
14.03.14   12:38:21   Internet connection cleared.

With reference to the above, were you using an integrated modem/router (make? model?) or separate modem (make? model?) and router (make? model?)?

It's a BT ECI modem connected by a WAN connection to a Fritz!Box 7490. I have had similar logs from the F!B GUI when operating the F!B as a standalone VDSL modem/router.

This is a log when the Fritz!Box 7490 was operating in VDSL mode. It had been stable for 5 days. I initiated the disconnection to see whether the CHAPs issue was still present.

Receive Direction   Send Direction
Max. DSLAM throughput   kbit/s   80000   17000
Min. DSLAM throughput   kbit/s   40000   8000
Attainable data rate   kbit/s   101697   26620
Current throughput   kbit/s   64211   17000
Seamless rate adaptation    off   off

Latency    7 ms   6 ms
Impulse Noise Protection    4   3
G.inp    off   off

Signal-to-noise ratio   dB   11   10
Bitswap    off   on
Line attenuation   dB   12   0

Profile   17a   
G.Vector    off   off

Carrier record    A43   A43

2.03.14   16:59:10   Internet connection established successfully. IP address: xx.xx.xx.xx, DNS server: 212.23.6.100 and 212.23.3.100, Gateway: 62.3.84.17, Broadband PoP: bras-red1.bm-th-B20C4110500113
12.03.14   16:53:49   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 5849
12.03.14   16:46:12   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 17796
12.03.14   16:35:20   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 3388
12.03.14   16:27:59   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 2289
12.03.14   16:26:58   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 1473
12.03.14   16:26:55   DSL is available (DSL synchronization exists with 64211/17000 kbit/s).
12.03.14   15:54:16   DSL not responding (no DSL synchronization).
12.03.14   15:54:00   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 18478
12.03.14   15:53:00   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 2594
12.03.14   15:52:00   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 13052
12.03.14   15:51:56   DSL is available (DSL synchronization exists with 64211/17000 kbit/s).

[art37]

My CHAPs' woes continue. After a lot of discussion, I agreed to an SFI engineer visit. I could not have wished for a more affable or accommodating man. He carried out a 'lift and shift' but this has not resolved the issue. He also changed the modem, and the NTE5 and DEK faceplates. He saw for himself that it could take up to 12 attempts to achieve an authentication on a PPPoE modem to laptop connection (ruling out all potential router issues). We then reconnected the router and could see from the log that the router would record somewhere between 5 and 12 attempts before authentication is achieved. The common denominator is the number of attempts - less time to achieve a connection on a laptop as my finger is quicker. The connection has been rock solid for about a day when the internet cleared briefly (retaining full DSL synch). This is the log:

21.03.14   12:15:28   Internet connection established successfully. IP address: xx.xx.xx.xx, DNS server: 212.23.6.100 and 212.23.3.100, Gateway: 62.3.84.23, Broadband PoP: bras-red1.bm-th-B20C4110500113
21.03.14   12:14:27   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 14634
21.03.14   12:14:26   Internet connection cleared.
21.03.14   12:04:25   Internet connection established successfully. IP address: 172.16.24.107, DNS server: 62.6.38.125 and 62.6.38.125, Gateway: 81.146.167.1, Broadband PoP: bras-red1.bm-th-B20C4110500113
21.03.14   11:53:57   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 8601
21.03.14   11:46:33   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 19004
21.03.14   11:45:33   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 10591
21.03.14   11:44:33   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 542
21.03.14   11:43:32   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 20680
21.03.14   11:42:32   Log in with Internet service provider failed. CHAP authentication failure, unit 13854
21.03.14   11:42:31   Internet connection cleared.

I am not sure why there was a connection to IP 172.16.24.107 as this is not my IP address.

There is a lot of head scratching going on at Zen. Any further thoughts would be helpful.

[burakkucat]

My CHAPs' woes continue. After a lot of discussion, I agreed to an SFI engineer visit. I could not have wished for a more affable or accommodating man.

Clearly one from Black Sheep's flock.

I am not sure why there was a connection to IP 172.16.24.107 as this is not my IP address.

From your above statement, I deduce that you have a static IPv4 address?

There is a lot of head scratching going on at Zen. Any further thoughts would be helpful.

Have Zen examined their logs and carefully checked the entries for the dates/times when this failure has been noticed?

Puzzling. 

[art37]

Yes, I have a static IP address. Zen's systems are not picking up the failed CHAPs events. However, they are confident that, after extensive line testing by BT, that the authentication attempts are hitting something in BT's systems - they are just not getting through to Zen.

[burakkucat]

21.03.14   12:04:25   Internet connection established successfully. IP address: 172.16.24.107, DNS server: 62.6.38.125 and 62.6.38.125, Gateway: 81.146.167.1, Broadband PoP: bras-red1.bm-th-B20C4110500113

That line certainly does require further investigation. The IPv4 address is, of course, from one of the "private" (non-Internet) blocks. I wonder whose DNS server is being referenced? Having just checked, I see it belongs to Beattie . . . as does the gateway address.

It does look as if Zen will need to escalate this problem to the "higher levels" of BTWholesale support . . . 

[art37]

21.03.14   12:04:25   Internet connection established successfully. IP address: 172.16.24.107, DNS server: 62.6.38.125 and 62.6.38.125, Gateway: 81.146.167.1, Broadband PoP: bras-red1.bm-th-B20C4110500113

That line certainly does require further investigation. The IPv4 address is, of course, from one of the "private" (non-Internet) blocks. I wonder whose DNS server is being referenced? Having just checked, I see it belongs to Beattie . . . as does the gateway address.

It does look as if Zen will need to escalate this problem to the "higher levels" of BTWholesale support . . . 

Can you spell that out for me as I am rather out of my depth here - and drowning fast. Why would my router be connecting to a private block/DNS server?