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Author Topic: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.  (Read 11491 times)

rtho782

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Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« on: February 22, 2014, 02:30:39 PM »

I had Infinity 2 installed on a relatively short line (estimate 78.1-80mb, initial attainable rate 94mb) on the 3rd Feb.

From day one, it was unstable. The (kellys) engineer wouldn't give me a hg612 as I had a HH5, so I had nothing else to test it with. It was disconnecting 6-12 times a day, the HH5 rebooting.

There was seemingly no cause to the reboots in the log, unlike others it wasn't due to OpenRG or anything like that.

BT support wouldn't help me as my install hadn't been closed off and BT still believed my order was in progress. I managed to fix this (probably a mistake as they would never have billed me otherwise!!!) but it took many calls, and didn't get fixed till the 18th.

By this time, DLM had reduced my line to a 60/16 sync. BT support were utterly useless ("reboot it", "reset it", "monitor it for a month") so I bought myself a hg612 from ebay. (I kind of think they should pay me for this but whatever).

Line is now stable with the hg612, but of course I am interleaved and have a 9db margin.

Current stats below. Is it my imagination or is this level of interleaving extreme? 35ms to bbc.co.uk. How long will it take to start to back off and go back to a proper sync? (BT won't reset the DLM, believe me I've tried). Why is the SNRM so much lower on the low tones (up to 500), and why is there a reduced block of tones at around 875-1205?

http://i.imgur.com/7cZdrDq.png

Code: [Select]
DSLAM/MSAN type: BDCM:0xa415 / v0xa415
DSL mode:        VDSL2
Status:          Showtime
Uptime:          8 hours 40 min 41 sec

Downstream Upstream
Attenuation (dB):       
Connection speed (kbps): 60908 18999
SNR margin (dB):        9.1 10.9
Power (dBm):            12.4 6.6
Interleave depth:        1341 674
INP:                    4.00 4.00

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0079 5.3232
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 0


xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 2
Max: Upstream rate = 31379 Kbps, Downstream rate = 89604 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 18999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60908 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 9.1 10.9
Attn(dB): 0.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 6.6
VDSL2 framing
Path 0
B: 39 26
M: 1 1
T: 64 64
R: 16 10
S: 0.0209 0.0451
L: 21443 6557
D: 1341 674
I: 56 37
N: 56 37
Counters
Path 0
OHF: 23294226 2867403
OHFErr: 25 8
RS: 1668354027 610849
RSCorr: 130847 120600
RSUnCorr: 613 0

Path 0
HEC: 132 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 3662551336 0
Data Cells: 12458928 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 33 13
SES: 5 0
UAS: 36 36
AS: 31272

Path 0
INP: 4.00 4.00
PER: 1.33 5.05
delay: 7.00 8.00
OR: 119.65 66.45

Bitswap: 198 226

Total time = 1 days 6 hours 33 min 47 sec
FEC: 568128 389476
CRC: 4042 31
ES: 33 13
SES: 5 0
UAS: 36 36
LOS: 5 0
LOF: 5 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 min 47 sec
FEC: 919 62
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 26 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 6 hours 33 min 47 sec
FEC: 28613 13880
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 539515 375596
CRC: 4042 31
ES: 33 13
SES: 5 0
UAS: 36 36
LOS: 5 0
LOF: 5 0
Since Link time = 8 hours 41 min 11 sec
FEC: 130847 120600
CRC: 25 8
ES: 4 4
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
#

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!
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waltergmw

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 10:04:14 PM »

Hi Rtho & welcome,

IMHO that is one VERY sick VDSL service. I suggest you might try cancelling the service as it is not fit for purpose. If you had selected a more reasonable ISP you might have managed a more lucid conversation especially with those figures available. If you frequent twitter land there is a BT group based in Northern Ireland who will usually reply with a link to explain in more detail and with your confidential information. EDIT I think it might be @btcare but somebody else correct me if I'm wrong please.

Kind regards,
Walter
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 10:32:40 PM by waltergmw »
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rtho782

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2014, 11:03:27 PM »

Not a twitter user I'm afraid, seems insane that it seems to be the only way to get help from companies these days!

I've tried getting out of contract (right now I'd rather have internet via carrier pidgeon) but they won't let me. I've complained to the Otelo to see what happens. They feel that now it is stable (because I bought my own modem....) it's fixed. They won't even reset the DLM.

So, you think there is more here than just the issues caused by DLM? I've stopped the disconnects now by using the hg612...

Thanks for your help!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 11:07:15 PM by rtho782 »
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rtho782

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2014, 11:50:54 PM »

BT Support's latest helpful suggestion is that my line has slowed down not due to DLM but in fact due to a fault at the Cardiff exchange... Except that I'm not in Cardiff, in fact, I'm not even in Wales. I'm in Bristol.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2014, 03:00:01 AM »

well an isp like plusnet would have got you an engineer (however plusnet told me they cant get speed boost engineers on FTTC only SFI, I believe BT can get speed boost engineers). but if my experience is anything to go by the engineer would have fobbed you off with rubbish like

"60meg is a good speed"
"60 meg is within spec of your estimate"
"my tester unit says everything is cool so is nothing for me to do bye"

So the good news is obviously your line is no longer dropping out (based on your word).
Looking at your stats they not great, but they not aweful either, you got only 25 crc errors on the existing day (8 hours in) but the previous day had 4k crc errors.  What DLM will be looking at if to relent is your CRC (and possibly FEC) error rate.  I believe it requires 10 disconnections a day to be considered unstable on the standard DLM profile, so looking at those error rates I believe its line errors not disconnections that have stuffed you over.  In my opinion its a fault for openreach to fix, but getting them to fix it will be a nightmare.

If you consider good latency important you might try capping your sync speed as others on this site have tried to reduce your error rate, trading sync speed for latency, but my advice would be to keep the hg612 connected, dont reboot or power cut it, and monitor the error rates, at the same time keep hassling BT, escalate to CEO if needs be.  What is in your ammo is that you had a very high estimate and you expect the sync speed to be closer to it than it is, although I suspect BT will want more then that to justify an engineer.  so throw in some comments its still disconnecting as well.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 03:04:25 AM by Chrysalis »
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Berrick

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2014, 08:25:45 AM »

Interesting reading. Whilst helping a client move to FTTC I was told by the BT representative only last week that
Quote
"we don't quote up to speeds like other company's. On FTTC the margin we quote is what you will get"
So base on the OP's quoted estimated speed should get 78Mbps, right?

My experience with the HH5 is mixed. It seems to get confused when setting up port forwarding, saying it already has a rule using the port I have configured. I haven't and ignoring the error doesn't stop this rule from working?
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rtho782

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2014, 08:35:44 AM »

HG612 has been on for a few days now, it is stable but does seem to resync (not reboot) once a night at around 4-6am. However, I have a feeling this could be caused by DLM itself.

The line is still on INP4, the download sync hasn't moved much, but the upload sync is almost back to 20m.

Complaints to BT still ongoing, I didn't really look at plusnet as I thought they were part of BT anyway (and I wanted 802.11ac on the HH5). If I manage to get a disconnection which is my primary aim, I will probably go with AAISP even if it works out expensive.

I've noticed the web interface of the HG612 likes to shut off, yesterday morning I went to the trouble of re-unlocking it, but this morning I've noticed that telnet still works.

Stats below:

Code: [Select]
Downstream Upstream
Attenuation (dB):        14.8 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 61081 19998
SNR margin (dB):        9.2 9.3
Power (dBm):            12.4 6.8
Interleave depth:        1359 617
INP:                    4.00 4.00

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0882 591.6493
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0002 0.0000
ES/hour:                22.5 22.5

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 31422 Kbps, Downstream rate = 90092 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19998 Kbps, Downstream rate = 61081 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 9.2 9.2
Attn(dB): 14.8 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 6.8
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 14 30
B: 39 26
M: 1 1
T: 64 64
R: 16 12
S: 0.0208 0.0429
L: 21504 7275
D: 1359 617
I: 56 39
N: 56 39
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 5115262 1664652
OHFErr: 57 27
RS: 1309317456 2974937
RSCorr: 1135138 2205109
RSUnCorr: 2877 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 726 0
OCD: 21 0
LCD: 21 0
Total Cells: 802147984 0
Data Cells: 4436351 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 25 14
SES: 11 0
UAS: 57 46
AS: 6848

Bearer 0
INP: 4.00 4.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 7 6
PER: 1.33 4.13
OR: 119.53 69.67
AgR: 61200.93 20067.76

Bitswap: 2693/2693 178/178

Total time = 8 hours 20 min 17 sec
FEC: 1162723 2223207
CRC: 7235 27
ES: 25 14
SES: 11 0
UAS: 57 46
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 10 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 5 min 17 sec
FEC: 111440 108351
CRC: 0 3
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 102 651
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 8 hours 20 min 17 sec
FEC: 1162723 2223207
CRC: 7235 27
ES: 25 14
SES: 11 0
UAS: 57 46
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 10 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 1 hours 54 min 7 sec
FEC: 1135138 2205109
CRC: 57 27
ES: 14 14
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 08:37:54 AM by rtho782 »
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Ronski

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2014, 10:24:38 AM »

If you've been flashing the original unlocked firmware it's possible that the firmware has auto updated over night, hence the loss of the Web page. Telnet and monitoring programs will still work with the new firmware. There are newer versions available on here.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2014, 01:31:42 PM »

HG612 has been on for a few days now, it is stable but does seem to resync (not reboot) once a night at around 4-6am. However, I have a feeling this could be caused by DLM itself.

The line is still on INP4, the download sync hasn't moved much, but the upload sync is almost back to 20m.

Complaints to BT still ongoing, I didn't really look at plusnet as I thought they were part of BT anyway (and I wanted 802.11ac on the HH5). If I manage to get a disconnection which is my primary aim, I will probably go with AAISP even if it works out expensive.

I've noticed the web interface of the HG612 likes to shut off, yesterday morning I went to the trouble of re-unlocking it, but this morning I've noticed that telnet still works.

Stats below:

Code: [Select]
Downstream Upstream
Attenuation (dB):        14.8 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 61081 19998
SNR margin (dB):        9.2 9.3
Power (dBm):            12.4 6.8
Interleave depth:        1359 617
INP:                    4.00 4.00

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0882 591.6493
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0002 0.0000
ES/hour:                22.5 22.5

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 31422 Kbps, Downstream rate = 90092 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19998 Kbps, Downstream rate = 61081 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 9.2 9.2
Attn(dB): 14.8 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 6.8
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 14 30
B: 39 26
M: 1 1
T: 64 64
R: 16 12
S: 0.0208 0.0429
L: 21504 7275
D: 1359 617
I: 56 39
N: 56 39
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 5115262 1664652
OHFErr: 57 27
RS: 1309317456 2974937
RSCorr: 1135138 2205109
RSUnCorr: 2877 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 726 0
OCD: 21 0
LCD: 21 0
Total Cells: 802147984 0
Data Cells: 4436351 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 25 14
SES: 11 0
UAS: 57 46
AS: 6848

Bearer 0
INP: 4.00 4.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 7 6
PER: 1.33 4.13
OR: 119.53 69.67
AgR: 61200.93 20067.76

Bitswap: 2693/2693 178/178

Total time = 8 hours 20 min 17 sec
FEC: 1162723 2223207
CRC: 7235 27
ES: 25 14
SES: 11 0
UAS: 57 46
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 10 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 5 min 17 sec
FEC: 111440 108351
CRC: 0 3
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 102 651
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 8 hours 20 min 17 sec
FEC: 1162723 2223207
CRC: 7235 27
ES: 25 14
SES: 11 0
UAS: 57 46
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 10 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 1 hours 54 min 7 sec
FEC: 1135138 2205109
CRC: 57 27
ES: 14 14
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#

yeah you not getting good uptime, your since link time again is below 1 day under 2 hours.

as a comparison mine has been up 12 days.
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rtho782

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2014, 11:16:44 AM »

If you've been flashing the original unlocked firmware it's possible that the firmware has auto updated over night, hence the loss of the Web page. Telnet and monitoring programs will still work with the new firmware. There are newer versions available on here.

This makes sense, I'm using SP10, I can't find a newer version anywhere?

Not a big issue as long as telnet still works I guess.

Line has now been up without resync for 1 day 4 hours, still at the exact same sync as my last post.
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Ronski

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2014, 01:18:38 PM »

I've just left the auto updated firmware on mine, telnet works and that's all I need.

Newer versions can be found in this post .
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rtho782

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2014, 02:07:20 PM »

I've just left the auto updated firmware on mine, telnet works and that's all I need.

Newer versions can be found in this post .

Thanks for that.

I think I agree with you and will leave it though, Telnet is fine and I seem to get less errors (FEC mostly) with the current fw. I've read that the guard bands have changed, so I guess this could be why.

Either way, it seems DLM is more likely to relent if I leave it.
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adslmax

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2014, 09:31:20 PM »

Mine is ongoing stable 10 days with HG612 unlocked latest version.
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rtho782

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2014, 07:44:41 PM »

3 days 12 hours stable, so decided to trigger a resync (xdslcmd start --up) and got the exact same up/down sync speeds, currently with 9.9db SnR.

Banding?
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covlad1987

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Re: Homehub 5 is awful, now smashed by DLM and interleaving.
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2014, 02:26:04 PM »

might be worth asking them to lower the n/s ?


my 6. Data rate:   9750 / 48049 ------max speed i can get so bt says
7. Maximum data rate:   up9841 / down57936



8. Noise margin:   6.1 / 6.2--------- default on bt not sure on other isp but you can ask them to drop it (i seen somewhere bt have default 3.0 6.0 9.0 on the n/s
9. Line attenuation:   0.0 / 20.5======200 meters to a green cabinet
10. Signal attenuation:   0.0 / 20.2
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