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Author Topic: Ringing Generator  (Read 4104 times)

burakkucat

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Ringing Generator
« on: February 13, 2014, 11:57:54 PM »

I was browsing through the collection of PO N-diagrams (maintained by Sam Hallas) in an attempt to find an example circuit of how 25 Hz AC "ringing" voltage is produced from the standard 50 Hz mains supply.

Eventually I came across N700, the circuit diagram for the Power Unit No 100A series. I have snipped out the relevant section of the circuit and attached a copy below.

Now I am a little uncertain how it operates and I wonder if there is a fellow kitizen who could enlighten me, please?

The 50 Hz AC mains is connected at the point marked "FROM T1 NOTE 8" and the 25 Hz AC ringing supply is available from the terminals labelled R & RR at the point marked "SUPPLY No 2 25 Hz DISTRIBUTION NOTE 7".
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4candles

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Re: Ringing Generator
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 01:09:58 PM »

4C scratches head, and proposes -

It looks very similar to the Converter Ringing No. 7 (N654).

D1 will pass only the positive-going half cycles, thereby reducing the frequency to 25Hz. C1, on discharge, will provide the negative-going half of the ringing voltage.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 09:26:55 PM by 4candles »
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burakkucat

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Re: Ringing Generator
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 10:38:04 PM »

b*cat had a peculiar feeling whilst reading 4C's comment about D1 being the reason for the frequency division to 25 Hz.  :o  That statement cannot be correct.  :no:

Perform a thought experiment by connecting a 50 Hz AC source to an oscilloscope. Look at the display. Connect a diode in series with one lead and look at the display, once again. Both traces show 50 Hz waveforms.  :)

Grummaging about, I found a description of CONVERTERS RINGING No's 4, 5, 6 & 7 and Section 3, Operation, states the following --

Quote
3. Operation
Consider the converter transformer as having two cores with identical secondary windings and a common primary winding.
These cores saturate in turn on alternate positive half cycles of the half-wave rectified mains supply. During the time a core is saturated no energy is transferred to the output. During the time a core is not saturated (i.e. it is working normally) a pulse of energy is transferred to the output. The saturation pulses are at SO c/s. The secondary windings are connected in series opposition relative to the primary winding, therefore these output pulses will be alternately in opposite senses, giving rise to an output at a frequency of 25 c/s. The optimum value of the capacitor which is connected to the secondary windings of the transformer is determined by the behaviour of the converter at low mains-input voltage and the starting of oscillations on load. Unlike a normal LC resonant circuit, the value of this capacitor does not influence the frequency of the output current.

When the loading on the output terminals is increased beyond full load, the output voltage falls rapidly and the production of 25 c/s ceases. On removing the excess load, the oscillations restart. This provides a useful self-protecting feature.

I think I understand that explanation . . .  :-\
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 10:19:33 PM by burakkucat »
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JGO

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Re: Ringing Generator
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2014, 07:39:26 AM »

Ah!  so that is the non-linear element !   but not shown as a saturating transformer on the circuit !!!!!

Thanks for the explanation burakkucat.
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4candles

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Re: Ringing Generator
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 08:42:46 AM »

Ah, of course - I made the elementary mistake of thinking of 50Hz AC as being 25 of each polarity; small wonder that I failed C&G Telecoms Tech Cert 49 Principles all those years ago.  :-[


Quote
3. Operation
Consider the converter transformer as having two cores with identical secondary windings and a common primary winding.
These cores saturate in turn on alternate positive half cycles of the half-wave rectified mains supply. During the time a core is saturated no energy is transferred to the output. During the time a core is not saturated (i.e. it is working normally) a pulse of energy is transferred to the output. The saturation pulses are at SO c/s. The secondary windings are connected in series opposition relative to the primary winding, therefore these output pulses will be alternately in opposite senses, giving rise to an output at a frequency of 25 c/s. The optimum value of the capacitor which is connected to the secondary windings of the transformer is determined by the behaviour of the converter at low mains-input voltage and the starting of oscillations on load. Unlike a normal LC resonant circuit, the value of this capacitor does not influence the frequency of the output current.

When the loading on the output terminals is increased beyond full load, the output voltage falls rapidly and the production of 25 c/s ceases. On removing the excess load, the oscillations restart. This provides a useful self-protecting feature.

I think I understand that explanation . . .  :-\

I think I more or less get the gist of it...  :-\

Instinct tells me that if C1 were not in circuit, the output would be zero,but that's probably wrong.   :-\
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burakkucat

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Re: Ringing Generator
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2014, 09:58:17 PM »

Guess what I have discovered, up for auction, on eBay . . . a Power Unit No 100A/2:)

I'm not going to enter a bidding-war in an attempt to own it because I don't possess the required oscilloscope to probe & analyse the "ringing" circuitry.

Thinking back, about 44 years ago I possessed a Ringing Converter No 7 and about 37 years ago, a Ringing Converter No 9A. Both were subsequently traded for other electrical/electronic items.
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