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[JGO]

Further to Bkat's latest posting, IF  your splitter is a microfilter you might like to consider a filtered faceplate in its place:  http://www.adslnation.com/products/xtespec.php

This device gives you a phone socket and an ADSL socket side by side, without need for external filters. This is less prone to damage ( and looks neater to appeal to Senior Management).   

IF  you do have extension wiring, it also obviates the need for microfilters at ext'n phones too.

PLEASE REGARD THIS AS A TENTATIVE SUGGESTION till B'kat has posted his thoughts on your setup.

[OldTimer]

Hi JGO & burakkucat

I have the type of Master socket that doesn't require seperate filters. My filter is of the type shown in the image attached. This was fitted by an Openreach engineer as part of the investigative process several months ago.

The engineer explained that it would isolate any internal extensions, or wiring, as the box has a dedicated ADSL socket which does not require additional filters.

Regarding your questions Bkat I will respond in a separate post, when we are back from feeding & watering my daughter's pony.

Regards,

OldTimer

[JGO]

OK you've been there, done that, and used the Tee shirt to wipe the pony !

 

[roseway]

Firstly, I am conscious that this thread has gone way beyond my original Output Power query, I don't know whether you are happy to leave it running under this same heading. Let me know if you want me to do anything differently.

I've taken the liberty of changing the original title, to reflect the direction in which the thread has moved.

[OldTimer]

The D-side pair (from the PCP) will be brought to a DP near to your home. Does the service feed from the DP come to you as an aerial drop cable or does it arrive from underground? The service feed may have a junction on the outside or just inside your property and then internal cable will be used from that point to the NTE5/A.

It comes as an aerial drop - please see attached image of DP immediately opposite my home. A rather crowded pole methinks. There is a little metal tab attached to the pole which states 'Maximum Load 14'. I think that it has hit that load quite easily. My line is the one that is top-right of the image as you look at it.

There is also a junction attached to my property (see attached image). This was to facilitate a second line, which, although the wires are still there, the line was cancelled by me, in December I think, when I moved my BT Hub to the present location so as to connect it via ethernet cable to the TV.

Apart from the NTE5/A, are there any other telephone sockets (extension sockets) fitted? If yes, are they wired to the back of the lower front face-plate of the NTE5/A?

There are no extension sockets presently connected.

You have mentioned a "spliter". Do you mean a plug-in micro-filter? Or a plug-in doubler?

A plug-in doubler. A new one was purchased and installed this morning.

Now a possible problem. The Sky "box". Exactly how is it connected to the line? What is its relationship with the micro-filter?

It is connected via an lead that plugs into the doubler, and the other end I believe is an RJ11? It doesn't go through any filter as the Master Socket does not need any separate filters as mentioned a few messages ago.

I will have a little monitoring report which I will post later.

Regards,

OldTimer

[roseway]

Sky boxes can cause interference, even with the arrangement you have. It's worth adding an extra level of filtering by using a micro-filter in the socket where the Sky box is connected.

[OldTimer]

As mentioned in my most recent post I have a little monitoring report which I trust will be helpful.

Firstly I left DSLstats on overnight again, and there are several interesting images which I have attached. I won't include them all, but just the SNRM ones that are most revealing.

The overall picture is that both the US and DS SNRM virtually flatlined for most the night(early hours), but around 6 or 7am the DS began to rise till it peaked and remained around 6dB. It was a but wavy here and there but there were no dramatic spikes.

The other thing to say is that on the image 2014-03-24-11.13.41.png if you look over towards the right, just after 9.40am there is a small 'dip' in the US line for what represents a few minutes. I was out at the time, but my wife took a call from the vets that happened at exactly that period. After what I am sure was that call the US line reverts to something aproximating it present normal.

Later, at 10.40am I installed the new doubler, just after that I did both quite & ring-back line tests. I believe that the small 'v' in the US line is when I did those tests.

I then plugged the Sky+ box connection into the doubler and did further quiet & ring-back line tests. Again, I think that this can be seen in the variation on the US line.

By the way, the Quite line tests I did were into the connection on the front of the Master Socket, not the test socket, and with the new coupler attached there was hardly any discernable sound at all.

How you interpret this information?

Regards,

OldTimer

[OldTimer]

Sky boxes can cause interference, even with the arrangement you have. It's worth adding an extra level of filtering by using a micro-filter in the socket where the Sky box is connected.

I have just added the extra filter that you recommend.

Regards,

OldTimer

[OldTimer]

Just a little bit more info .....

Please see attached image. The small dip after 14:32 on the US SNMR was due to me doing another quiet line test after plugging in the extra filter as recommended by roseway.

The deeper spike on the US SNMR (about 3 dB) at around 14:52 was due I believe to receiving an incoming call at that time.

Is it normal for incoming call to impact the US in the way it evidently is doing? Could it possibly be attributed to the fact that the phone base station and the 7800DXL Router/Modem are too near each other? They are around two feet apart.

Regards,

OldTimer

[roseway]

It's most unlikely that the wireless signal from the cordless phone is the problem. The frequencies are far apart, and as telephone calls only seem to affect the upstream, that's even more the case. What's not uncommon is for the cordless phone power supply to cause significant interference. But that wouldn't account for the increased interference all the time the phone is off the hook. So my opinion (others may disagree) is that the cordless phone isn't the problem.

The two common reasons for upstream interference during phone calls are defective filters and poor connections in the line from the exchange. It's a pity that the quiet line test doesn't give a more definitive result, because a line fault seems to me to be the most probable explanation. I don't recall at present where your cordless phone is plugged in, but I would replace the filter if it's connected to an extension, or add an extra filter (like you did with the Sky box) if it's connected to the master socket.

[OldTimer]

The cordless phone base station is connected to the top slot in the doubler, that in turn is plugged into the Master Socket. I will as suggested add an extra filter.

Regards,

OldTimer

[burakkucat]

I've finally "caught up" with today's latest updates, etc. Thank you for the photographs. They nicely clarify the situation.

So you have a SSFP (service specific face plate) installed at the NTE5/A. That is good news. 

With regards to double filtering, that was something I was going to suggest trying for the Sky box. I see that Eric has now suggested that you doubly filter the telephone base station, as an experiment. That can be easily done with a re-arrangement of your current set-up. Just remove the doubler from the telephony socket of the SSFP and plug a micro-filter in its place. Now plug the doubler into the telephony socket of the micro-filter and then connect the Sky box & telephone base station to the two sockets of the doubler.

Like others, I have suspicions that there is, at least, one defective joint in your pair. That would explain the sudden drop in the (US) SNRM whenever the telephone is used. Unfortunately, as your QLT does not give any indication of audible noise, it is going to be virtually impossible to have that joint (or joints) tracked down and remade. 

[OldTimer]

Thanks Bkat. I have acted on your suggestion and rearranged the set up as advised. I'll now see if that makes any difference.

Inserting the brand new doubler has at least proved the previous one was faulty and was the cause of the loud buzz that was evident when making or receiving calls. So I'm pleased with a little progress at least. 

If tracking down a possible defective joint is virtually impossible, it may be the case of putting up with what I've got until fibre finally becomes available. However, if, as mentioned earlier on in the thread, the 'fault' is between the street cabinet and my property, from what I have been advised fibre may not benefit me much. What I struggle to understand is that before I moved the BT hub to what is now the Billion 7800DXL's present location I was getting more than double the upload speed I am now getting from the line that was cancelled (although the cables are still there, as you can see from the 'junction' image), and the line seemed to be quite stable.

I am so very grateful for all the practical help and advice that you have all given me. This forum is a credit to all involved.  :clap2:

Regards,

OldTimer

[burakkucat]

Hmm . . . If there is a joint (or joints) showing HR or semi-conducting tendencies, it (they) will only get worse as time passes. The only hope is that the increased degradation will give rise to audible noise when performing a QLT.

From looking at your second photograph (the external "sausage" joint at the house end of the drop cable), there are a number of wiring configurations that could result in that scenario. Only by a physical examination will the truth be known. 

[OldTimer]

Hmm . . . If there is a joint (or joints) showing HR or semi-conducting tendencies, it (they) will only get worse as time passes. The only hope is that the increased degradation will give rise to audible noise when performing a QLT.

From looking at your second photograph (the external "sausage" joint at the house end of the drop cable), there are a number of wiring configurations that could result in that scenario. Only by a physical examination will the truth be known. 

Sorry to bother you again Bcat .... If what you mean by wiring configurations is what do the two wires coming out of the sausage serve? As you look at the image of 'the sausage joint' .. the one on the left is the line that is currently in use. This line, from the 'sausage joint' was renewed nby the second Openreach engineer. He didn't do anything with that part of the line that goes from the joint to the DP.

Again, as you look at the image, the line on the right is the one that was cancelled, but physically left in place.

A physical examination by whom? .... another Openreach engineer I guess? If so would they come out without saying it would cost me £xxx, and would they come out anyway on the possibility only that the 'sausage joint' as you call it may be part of the issue? As I am sure you fully appreciate it is totally frustrating to believe there may be an problem outside my personal ability to do anything about it. Aunt Beattie's  wholesale arm has already inferred there is nothing further they are able to do.

Regards,

OldTimer