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Author Topic: Output Power and very low upstream speed  (Read 22564 times)

OldTimer

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2014, 08:39:41 PM »

Snapshot post (2)
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OldTimer

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2014, 08:43:05 PM »

Snapshot post (3)
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OldTimer

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2014, 08:45:16 PM »

Snapshot post (4)
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OldTimer

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2014, 08:49:31 PM »

Snapshot (5) - The last one.

I must congratulate Eric on DSLstats, a fabulous program :thumbs:

I look forward to hearing what you think.

Regards,

OldTimer
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kitz

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2014, 09:21:34 PM »

There's obviously something that's keeping your upstream low, so perhaps need to think what is happening at those times when the snrm dips.     Normally it's something electrical switched on, but first I'm going to ask....  Did those times coincide with the voice telephone being in use?
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OldTimer

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2014, 09:45:46 PM »

Hi Kitz,

Thank you for your thoughts. I accept that It is likely that in a period of 24hrs the phone will have been used, but I'm 99.99% sure that it is not that. The phone is cordless I accept, but looking at some of the periods when the snrm dips I'm pretty confident that the phone was not in use.

As far as switching on anything electrical I have sat in front of the laptop and deliberately watched for some extraordinary 'manifestation' when the TV was switched on, likewise the vacuum cleaner, electric kettle, etc, etc......, but no unusual disturbance was noted when those things happened. Indeed, when you look at the 'waves of the sea' pattern of the line being registered on the snrm during the early hours we were well in the land of nod!

Apart from the severe spike that happened around lunchtime today when there were two dropped connections in rapid succession, the spike yesterday had no such event attached. For that one both DSLstats and the Billion 7800DXL Router/Modem both registered a continuous connection.

Regards,

OldTimer
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burakkucat

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2014, 10:11:38 PM »

I must admit that my first thought was "could Senior Management have been using the phone at the times of those severe, sudden drops in the US SNRM?" I now understand that was not the case.

Even though it is a cordless phone, the base station is still connected to the line. Do you still posses a classic, wired telephone? Have you noticed any audible noise when using the telephone? Have you tried the quiet line test?

With a classic, wired telephone connected to the line (if possible, otherwise use your cordless phone), call 17070 and take option 2 from the menu, the Quiet Line Test. Now just critically listen . . . you should hear absolute silence (only to be interrupted by Beattie announcing "Quiet Line Test" every so often). Clear down that call. Now recall 17070 and take option 1, the Ring Back Test. Whilst that is taking place, see if there is a sudden change in the SNRM graph.

From what limited evidence we have seen, I am convinced that there is a physical defect in the metallic pathway of your circuit.  :(  Exactly what defect and where it is located is still unknown.
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OldTimer

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2014, 10:45:47 PM »

Hello again,

Many thanks for your words of wisdom. I have just done the suggested tests (with the cordless phone) and can confirm that the line is certainly not silent!! There is quite a distinct and loud buzz right throughout the quiet line test. Also, either following, or during the actual test I lost the connection once again. As a consequence there was quite a spike on the SNRM graph. I had changed it to 1hr so that I could see it more easily.

I also did the Ring Back test and yes, you've guessed it the buzz was still there, and again I suffered a dropped connection.

If this is the cause, where do I go from here? Also, does the actual placement of the Router/Modem have any significance.

As I say, thanks again. May I just say that I have had more practical help and advice from the forum here than when I contacted Beattie!

Regards,

OldTimer
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burakkucat

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2014, 12:26:27 AM »

Ah, now that is interesting.  :)

What you now really must do is to repeat the QLT with only a classic, wired telephone connected directly to the test socket of the NTE5/A. If you do not possess a wired telephone, could you possibly borrow one from a neighbour, friend or relative? It is absolutely important that the test is performed without the use of a cordless phone. With only the wired telephone connected to the test socket, repeat the QLT. If you hear any hum, buzz, clicks, plops, voices in the background, etc, then it is time to report a "noisy telephone line" (without making any mention of the broadband service) to the entity to which you pay for the telephony service. Your telephony service provider will, after informing you potential charges, then book an Openreach network / PSTN engineering visit. That engineer will then be tasked to bring the circuit back into specification.

Once that has been done, you should then find that the broadband problem is no longer present. (In parenthesis I will say that you will, no doubt, need to contact your ISP to have the US target SNRM reset at (a sane) 6 dB, once the circuit has been repaired.)
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ichaanisaar

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2014, 02:27:52 AM »

:D
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OldTimer

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2014, 08:40:13 AM »

Things are progressing - at least my level of understanding. Rumaging through old treasures I did find an old wired phone that my mum used to have before she died. Taking the front plate off and plugging into the test socket I did the quiet line / ringback tests and I have to admit that the loudness of the buzz had disappeared, but there was still a much softer hum in the background. I can't say that there was no sound at all.

Secondly, I must mention that normally we have a splitter plugged in the phone socket. This carries the line to the phone base station, and also connects the Sky+ box to the phone line as per the Sky contract (for updates, monitoring etc..). I removed the splitter and tried just plugging firstly the old wired phone, then just the phone base station, the results were quite revealing. In each case the very loud buzz had greatly diminished, although the softer sound, referred to earlier was still there. I think that the splitter must be faulty, as when I replaced it and connected everything back up, back came the loud buzz when I did the tests.

To give you some further idea of our configuration, the 7800DXL Router/Modem is about 2ft from the phone case station, not much further from a surge protected power source (extension with eight sockets), and the TV which is about 3ft away (connected by an ethernet cable to the 7800DXL).

I am trying to think of a way to alter the configuration so that the 7800DXL is further away from all the jumble of wires and possible interference, but as you will understand one has to satisfy 'Senior Management', who will comment "you're not putting it there" - if you know what I mean  :no:

So I think I am a little clearer, but with work still to do. God willing I will go and get another splitter tomorrow, that will at least take care of that Issue I hope, then it is 'thinking cap time' to see if I can alter the configuration before I involve a line engineer from Beattie.

DSLstats is still showing a SNRM level of above 23 dB for the upstream, and around 3 dB for the downstream.

Many, many thanks for your help thus far - do you have any further thoughts?

Regards,

OldTimer
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JGO

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2014, 09:48:08 AM »

An odd point; in one of your posts you asked about Router placing.
 
It is  "good practice"  when possible, to keep wires carrying signal (ADSL etc )  short and direct  but keep the Router's PSU,  which is a possible source of REIN, as distant as possible from the Router .

Don't go overboard on this;  I have just detectable interference from BBC Droitwich, which is some 100 miles away. I could probably reduce it but it wouldn't buy sufficient speed/SNR to be worth the effort, i.e. If it ain't bust don't fix it.     

Otherwise I leave you in burakkucat's capable hands.
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kitz

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2014, 10:18:15 AM »

Quote
but there was still a much softer hum in the background. I can't say that there was no sound at all.

My line is the same, I cant recall it ever being completely quiet and I think a small amount is considered within normal realms.  I suppose it also depends on how astute your hearing is.

Quote
DSLstats is still showing a SNRM level of above 23 dB for the upstream,

As said by Bcat earlier in the thread, it looks like your upstream has been capped.  Your graph "SNRMargin-2014-03-22-14.31.18.png" shows us why its been capped and it looks like that may have been happening for a while. 

As it stands at the moment your line needs the 23dB SNRm on the upstream to stay in sync. Now we need to find out what is causing that huge downwards spike.  I was hoping that it would co-incide with use of the voice phone, because then we could either point the blame at your internal wiring or your phone-line.  If it was your phone line then you could throw it at BT to fix, and tell you what you need to say to the BToR engineer. 

Tracking down EMI/REIN is often a bit harder to find the source. :(
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OldTimer

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2014, 11:38:30 PM »

Firstly, I am conscious that this thread has gone way beyond my original Output Power query, I don't know whether you are happy to leave it running under this same heading. Let me know if you want me to do anything differently.

That being said, initially in response to JGO's comments I do intend to see what I can do to improve the placement of the various pieces of kit, principally to try and see if by doing so it makes any difference. As said before, it will have to be done with Senior Management's blessing  ;)

Kitz, thank you for your helpful comments, I suppose what I need to do is employ DSLstats monitoring a little more, in an effort to try and identify times and possible sources of any interference. I set DSLstats recording again when I came back from church tonight, and will again leave it running overnight to see what it captures.

Currently the cordless phone base station is plugged directly into the master socket, I have not yet re-inserted the splitter as I suspect that it is faulty, but I will hopefully go out tomorrow and buy a new one. Once I have the new splitter I will do another 'quiet line test' to see, with the new splitter in place, whether I then get the loud buzz that I did when the old one was being used.

I have read the REIN article on the site, and from what it said it does seem it may take a little time to identify the cause of the interference that may be causing my problem. I guess that it's a case of combining the DSLstats monitoring with a process of elemination. If you have any suggestions as to what else I can do please let me know.

Once again, many thanks.

OldTimer
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burakkucat

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Re: Understanding my Output Power
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2014, 12:51:53 AM »

Sorry not to have responded before now . . . I was out all day Sunday and am just "catching up" with things.

I would really like to clarify your wiring situation, please.

The D-side pair (from the PCP) will be brought to a DP near to your home. Does the service feed from the DP come to you as an aerial drop cable or does it arrive from underground? The service feed may have a junction on the outside or just inside your property and then internal cable will be used from that point to the NTE5/A.

Apart from the NTE5/A, are there any other telephone sockets (extension sockets) fitted? If yes, are they wired to the back of the lower front face-plate of the NTE5/A?

My feeling is that you only have an NTE5/A and no extension sockets.

You have mentioned a "spliter". Do you mean a plug-in micro-filter? Or a plug-in doubler?

Now a possible problem. The Sky "box". Exactly how is it connected to the line? What is its relationship with the micro-filter?

Sorry for all the questions . . . Ideally I would like to "see" exactly how you have the various items interconnected.
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