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[OldTimer]

Hello,

Could some kind soul help me understand whether my indicated Output Power is anywhere near normal for the Attenuation indicated in my Router stats?

The Kitz Line Checker estimates my residence is 3.13 Km from the exchange (directly), and approximately 3.6 Km by road.

My Router stats indicate the following:

Line Attenuation: 54.7 dB / 34.7 dB

Output Power: (Down/Up) 7.0 dBm / 1.5 dBm.

I am trying to understand whether this is in any way part of an ongoing issue over which I am in dialogue with my ISP.

I would be very appreciative of comment on the above.

[roseway]

Those values are unusually low, and would suggest that there's some underlying problem. The problem could possibly be your router, so do you have an alternative which you could try?

[OldTimer]

Thanks for coming back so quickly! My ISP is BT and currently I am connected by the means of a Hub 2. I also have a Hub 4, but quite frankly the Output Power is exactly the same when that is connected.

Here are the full stats from my HH2:

ADSL line status
Connection Information
Line state   Connected
Connection time   0 days, 17:37:06
Downstream   4,359 Kbps
Upstream   445 Kbps
 
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI   0/38
Type   PPPoA
Modulation   G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type   Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up)   6.8 dB / 23.3 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up)   54.7 dB / 34.0 dB
Output power (Down/Up)   7.0 dBm / 1.6 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up)   0 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up)   35240 / 0
HEC Errors (Down/Up)   1167224 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote)   5702 / 0

The issue I have been in dialogue with BT about concerns my upload throughput. Since they put me on to ADSL 2 I had an upload profile of over 1 Mbps, but never got anywhere near that. In fact I was only seeing uploads of around 0.23 Mbps. Recently, in an effort to understand what was going off they 'capped' my upload at 0.45 Mbps. The upload throughput then rose slightly to a consistent 0.38 Mbps.

Just in case you wonder why I re-connected the older HH2, the reasons were that I was not convinced that the HH4 wasn't in some way faulty, and I do get a modest improvement in download speed with the HH2.

I also have noticed a significant increase in the errors reported since I re-connected the HH2 yesterday.

Thank you so much for trying to help, as I use upload quite a lot, uploading audio & video files to a server inthe USA. As the files are usually 30 - 40 minutes long, you will understand why a good upload speed is important to me.

[burakkucat]

Due to my line's length and its condition, I find it beneficial to use ADSL2 mode.

Absolute values in isolation are not that helpful in diagnosing a potential problem, so to have some data with which to make a comparison, here follows some parameters (freshly harvested) from my line --

Code: [Select]

# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 8000
Max: Upstream rate = 1068 Kbps, Downstream rate = 6168 Kbps
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 1020 Kbps, Downstream rate = 5637 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2
TPS-TC: ATM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 5.1 7.0
Attn(dB): 46.0 27.4
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 12.8
<snip>

Unfortunately my modem/router (a Huawei HG622) is unable to report the power output of the remote MSAN (a device with an Infineon chipset).

Looking critically at both the power output and the attenuation for the upstream of your line, both seem to be abnormal.

We can clearly see the attempt to cap your upstream synchronisation speed by the high (23.3 dB) SNRM. Unfortunately that is doing nothing other than masking the (obvious) underlying problem.

I also note that your line appears to be configured for fast path.

Ideally I would like to see a graphical presentation of your line's behaviour (over a period of a couple of days, minimum) with the line configured for a 6 dB target SNRM in interleaved mode.

[kitz]

hmm  very strange.    If you power output was that low then youd expect it to affect your connection speeds, yet your speed seems good for a 55dB line.

55dB is approx 4km of line length, so that also ties in with the approx 3.6km by road if you add in any local layouts etc. 

When I first saw the stats, like eric I suspected a router logging issue, perhaps missing the trailing '1' ie 7 = 17, but thats out the window as youve tried a different router. (common HH f/w issue?) 

Its rather strange, and tbh I dont honestly think those power readings can be true, otherwise youd be lucky to get any sort of connection on a 55dB line.  An extremely short line would need more power than that to get adsl1, nvm adsl2+ 

Sorry I dont have any further suggestions

[OldTimer]

Me, do a graph! Now that doesn't happen very often. What particular targets would you want to see, and ideally how many days would you suggest would be best to record? Also, how many examples each day would be suitable. If you can let me know, I will do my best to give you the relevant information to consider.

I really appreciate your helpful suggestion burakkucat.

 

[kitz]

Theres nothing that can be graphed from a HH4 anyhow, its too locked down.
 
Im not sure about the HH2, it may work with Routerstats Lite with a lot of tweaking, but I think the main problem is it uses a dynamic page.   

John (vlowen) has done a couple of hack-arounds for the HH3 and HH5,  but afaik theres only the HH1 which worked properly with RSLite.
He's a helpful chappy and having used all of the HHs on his own connection he is probably the best person to ask.
http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm

[OldTimer]

I appreciate you chipping in Kitz.. Here's just a quick follow up to my last post. As a further snapshot in time, about 5 hours on from the last example, I have just taken another peek at the HH2 stats, here is what came up:

ADSL line status
Connection Information
Line state   Connected
Connection time   1 days, 02:55:53
Downstream   4,359 Kbps
Upstream   445 Kbps
 
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI   0/38
Type   PPPoA
Modulation   G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type   Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up)   4.9 dB / 23.9 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up)   54.7 dB / 34.0 dB
Output power (Down/Up)   6.3 dBm / 1.6 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up)   0 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up)   27815 / 0
HEC Errors (Down/Up)   3142324 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote)   13117 / 0

There are little differences, and the Down error stats are creeping up, but when burakkucat gets back to me I try and do a longer monitoring of things.

Apparently, according to BT, although they had tried to increase the upload speed, they had been unable to do so, as my line became unstable when they attempted it. The fact is that I have had better speeds before, but now it would seem they cannot be replicated.

[burakkucat]

Having just re-read the earlier posts in this thread, I realise that I have committed a folly.

Using any of the HHs will be problematic and, as Kitz has mentioned, probably the only utility that may operate with any degree of success is John Owen's RouterStats (or RouterStats-Lite). As for the parameters to plot, synchronisation speed and SNRM would be the absolute minimum. (Basically the more data that can be plotted v time, the better.)

Do you know of anyone who may be able to lend you a modem/router? Off the top of my head, I'd say that a Netgear DG834Gv4 would be ideal. Or even a 2Wire 2700HGV, also known as a BT Business Hub, V2.0.

Edited to add:

The errors (CRC & HEC) and error seconds are accumulating because your line has been configured on fast path, rather than interleaved --

Latency type   Fast

[OldTimer]

Sorry for the delayed response. Sadly I don't know anyone who might have either of the modem/routers lying around. I spoke to the guy next door today who would have been the most likely, but he's with Talk-Talk and uses a 'Billion' himself. He, apparently, gets a lower download speed than I do (although my problem is with the upload speed).

I did look on e-bay and there are a few 're-furbished' or 'used' examples of the two modem/routers you mentioned.

I have however been seriously wondering today whether to invest in a new non-BT modem/router, one that would enable me to monitor the stats & performance more effectively. Mind you, with the improvement in wireless technology, I can't afford to keep shelling out for new kit, so would want any purchase I make to be reasonably future-proof, for the forseeable future at least. I see that following on from the 802.11n standard there is something referred to as 802.11ac. I accept that presently I may not be able to use such a piece of kit to its full potential, but in trying to look far enough ahead, would something with that standard be reasonable, or perhaps over-the-top?

If I was to take advantage of Routerstats then I rather spend my money on something that would be reasonably future-proof as I said, and would integrate easily with RS.

As always, I would really appreciate your thoughts.

Regards,

Alan

[kitz]

Both routers are now old models, but b*cat will have recommended them because they both have an excellent reputation for stability on long lines.

Its sometimes hard to suggest a router, because what works well on long lines doesnt always work well on short lines so its often a case of 'suck it and see'.   As an example the 2700 is rubbish on short lines whilst the ST585's and the TG582N gave me far better speeds.  (Im talking  6Mb more).  Yet someone on a long line doesnt quite fair as well with the ST's and call them rubbish.

I think you are wise wanting to future proof, and it has to be said that 802.11ac standard is still very much in its infancy and has had some teething problems.   If you really are looking to the future then one which is vdsl2 compatible may be a good move.   

If you are looking for one that monitors stats, then a BCM chipset is a must.  Eric keeps an up to date record of those routers here.   

Im perhaps not the best person to ask as I too am in the market for decent priced vdsl modem/router, but havent quite yet found one that ticks all the right boxes.  Theres aZyxel one thats come near and also TG589vn v3 which came into budget but disappointingly let down due to not having gigE ports. 

Possibly the best thing to do may be if you see one that strikes your fancy and then we can give opinions.

[kitz]

PS
Meant to say, the added advantage of a BCM chipset is most of them work very well with erics DSLstats, which IMHO is one of the best stats monitoring software you can get.   (Not that we are biased or anything   )   but it does offer more than Routerstats for those routers that it works with.

[OldTimer]

Many thanks for a really helpful and encouraging reply. Since penning my previous message I have spent a bit of time looking around at various modem/routers, and as it happened I kept getting drawn to an Asus DSL-N66U Wireless ADSL/VDSL Modem Router.

It is quite a bit more than I had hoped to pay, but looking at the specs it does fit the bill as far as your future proofing recommendation is concerned. So far however I haven't been able to find what chipset it has, I will keep looking. It isn't however listed on the DSLstats list.

I would welcome your thoughts on this particular model, with any advantage, or drawbacks.

Regards,

Alan

[burakkucat]

I've had a quick "look around" to see if I could find anything regarding the chipset used in the Asus DSL-N66U.

The best I could find is the output from a cat /proc/cpuinfo command line. It looks to be somewhat truncated but right at the beginning it does show Ralink RT65168 SOC.

Code: [Select]

# cat /proc/cpuinfo
system type             : Ralink RT65168 SOC
processor               : 0
cpu model               : MIPS 34K V5.4
BogoMIPS                : 298.18
wait instruction        : yes
microsecond timers      : yes
tlb_entries             : 64
extra interrupt vector  : yes
hardware watchpoint     : yes
ASEs implemented        : mips16 dsp mt
shadow register sets    : 1
VCED exceptions         : not available
VCEI exceptions         : not available
unaligned accesses      : 0


processor               : 1
cpu model               : MIPS 34K V5.4
BogoMIPS                : 223.64
wait instruction        : yes
microsecond timers      : yes
tlb_entries             : 64
extra interrupt vector  : yes
hardware watchpoint     : yes
ASEs implemented        : mips16 dsp mt
shadow register sets    : 1
VCED exceptions         : not available
VCEI exceptions         : not available
unaligned accesses      : 0


processor               : 2
cpu model               : MIPS 34K V5.4
BogoMIPS                : 223.64
wait instruction        : yes
microsecond timers      : yes

Edited to add:

Ralink was bought by MediaTek in 2011.

http://www.mediatek.com/_en/01_products/04_pro.php?sn=1072
http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/hardware/soc/soc.mediatek
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=11470.0

[OldTimer]

I guess then if a Broadcom chipset is state-of-the-art and more desirable, this would appear to rule out the Asus DSL-N66U?

I see that its big brother, the Asus RT-N66U N900 does have a Broadcom chipset, but that appears to me, as a complete novice, to require a separate modem - shame!

Regards,

Alan