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Author Topic: I have Very Long Dead Legs :)  (Read 3434 times)

tickmike

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I have Very Long Dead Legs :)
« on: May 17, 2014, 04:43:28 PM »

No I do not need to see a Doctor  ;) as it's a plumbing term for the length of 'dead' cold water in the hot water pipe from a domestic hot water cylinder (HWC) that you have to run off before you get the hot water through to have a wash etc.
As our bathroom is a long way from the HWC we can run on 2 gallon or more before it runs hot, so I have ordered one of these
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BKXUQ8W/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Timeguard-DS4-Pneumatic-Delay-Switch/dp/B00ENYQFQM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400346104&sr=8-1&keywords=pneumatic+push+switch
I will use it without the pressure switch and I will use a push type pneumatic electrical time switch to run it for x minutes and it will draw water from the low pressure hot and send it back up to the low pressure cold to the header tank thus not wasting so much water as we are on a water meter.
My problem is I did not notice it was 220 volt , my voltage is 243.5 just now, it's only going to run 3 to 5 minutes several times a day with long periods when not in use.
Do you think I would need a step down transformer or do you think it will stand that over voltage ?.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 06:04:31 PM by tickmike »
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4candles

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Re: I have Very Long Dead Legs :)
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2014, 06:08:53 PM »

As the device is a pump - some kind of 'motor'? - I'd be more concerned about the frequency, which I see is the UK 50Hz standard - so no problem there.

As to voltage - well, I'd have no worries, but someone may know more, so don't quote me.  ;)
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JGO

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Re: I have Very Long Dead Legs :)
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2014, 07:20:22 PM »

Agree with 4Candles that the motor shouldn't be fussy for a few %. particularly with such a short duty period.  If it had some sort of electronic speed control then just maybe.

An observation which might interest others; when lagging cold pipes to ward of freezing I had some cylindrical plastic foam push-on lagging left after doing all the cold pipes so I pushed the spare 1 metre length on the  washbasin hot pipe.  This has the effect of making the 2nd user's water start warm, provided they follow the 1st used promptly !  It is only a temporary fix; the water starts warm, cools off and then warms up again. IF one could get at the whole pipe run it would be worth doing all the run back to the hot tank.
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Ezzer

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Re: I have Very Long Dead Legs :)
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2014, 06:30:34 PM »

I'm finding a similar problem with the long run from the boiler in the basement to our shower on the 1st floor.

Lagging the hot pipe where possible helps with some of the heat loss from the boiler all the way to the end where the water is needed. As well as clearing the volume of cold water, the new hot water is loosing heat to the pipe work and surrounding along it travels. The heat loss is greater in the inital flow as the pipe work is cold so absorbs more heat fom the water initaly.

Your solution is a fair one. but I wonder if you could run the pump on a 24 hour timer so it runs some hot water at an expected time just before you normally use the shower. I'm considering running something not too different. We've just bought a new house. It was vacant for the past 4 years. This winter has had some particuarly cold days, so I am fixing lots of leaks and burst pipes that were missed with the "winterisation" (so nice to spell that with an 'S')

I've spent the past 18 months on a heating and ventilation course here in Colorado USA. The hydronic (what we would call hot water or central heating) part was interesting. The ooh's and ahhs about the strange form of "European heating" Zonal heating is used with this by the fitting of electronically controlled valves. Much simpler to fit and control than it might sound. The most complex part would be routing the bypass to the cold water tank (they don't have those over here)

As for the voltage, AC motors typically accept upto 10% variation in voltage. If what I saw on the displays in phone exchanges in the UK over the years  243v is not untypical. It's the capacitor for a typical motor that is the most sensitive to the power issues in this case unless its whats known as an ECM motor (electronics within the motor control its operation)
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c6em

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Re: I have Very Long Dead Legs :)
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2014, 06:45:55 PM »

hotels run this sort of system
...the hot water continually flowing round a loop.
This means the amount of dead/cold/unused water static in the pipes and having to be flushed though before the 'hot' water gets to your room is relatively small.
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Ezzer

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Re: I have Very Long Dead Legs :)
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2014, 07:00:10 PM »

the loop is the ideal, great to install when the building was constructed. At least in the UK theres a fair chance a lot of the pipe work can be routed under the floor boards. Unfortunately in my case I'm getting fed up with ripping out plaster board to get at leaking pipes in stud walls.

In some new properties here, there are such loops for boiler perfomance reasons. But unfortunately these tend to be for homes with hot water heating rather than blown air. And these tend to be very high end homes, custom built. Also strangely enough, you would have a 99% chance of guessing how someone votes if they had such a home. Even suggesting new fangled ideas on this thread would get some odd reactions from some over here. Never mind mentioning Solar or geothermal, send some here into a rage.
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tickmike

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Re: I have Very Long Dead Legs :)
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2014, 09:27:24 PM »

I did think about a 'loop' but it would waste more heat/energy.
The pump came yesterday and it's well constructed I ordered some flexible hose's to connect it to my existing pipework they came today and I screwed them on to the pump and put the inlet one in a bowl of water and once I removed the air it pumped very well. 8)
I mounted the pump and plumbed it in (I included a one way valve in the output pipe) and ran it manually at first and after about two minutes the warm water came through  ;D, I also ordered some  pneumatic electrical time switch's and I wired one of those up and it worked very well.
One thing I am going to look at is a better sound proof mounting for the pump as there is a bit of a hum. 
Edit... Update.
I mounted the pump with 4 'small metalastik rubber mounts' and that has cut the noise down by 90%.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 02:42:02 PM by tickmike »
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