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Author Topic: 'New' wireless technology ??  (Read 5278 times)

Black Sheep

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'New' wireless technology ??
« on: November 06, 2013, 08:21:27 PM »

Didn't even know this existed ?? Only heard about it via our 'Field Engineering News'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac
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ryant704

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2013, 08:33:11 PM »

It's not new, been used in the U.S for a while.

It's with the HH5 as well!
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Black Sheep

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2013, 08:35:09 PM »

Ah right, the FEN said it was being introduced in 2014. thanks for the heads-up, re:HH5 enabled.
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2013, 11:46:11 PM »

I love how a technology is being put into consumer routers that isn't even finalised yet.

I remember the first batch of 802.11N routers did not work with the final spec! What's to stop that happening this time?

I won't be upgrading until 802.11ac is finalised and I recommend this to all people.
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kitz

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2013, 12:01:36 AM »

Although its not been finalised, theres a few router manufacturers that have used 802.11ac for a while.  Netgear has been doing so since 2012 irrc.

eg Netgear D6300 but thats not their only 802.11ac model available.

If you notice one of my more recent gripes about adsl routers having theoretical faster wifi speeds than LAN...  and this is precisely why I dont buy the 'processing power excuse' any more for not using gigE switches in their routers when it has a dual band ac wireless adaptor.

TPlink, d-link, zyxel, linksys (and more) all have wireless AC routers in their product range.
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burakkucat

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2013, 12:05:17 AM »

Agreed. If needs be, I can get by with 802.11b;)
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c6em

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2013, 08:12:24 AM »

I won't be upgrading until 802.11ac is finalised and I recommend this to all people.

Well that is pretty well how most engineers like me have worked regarding everything for a long time.
This applies to anything in the consumer field from cars to computers
You wait while everyone else, the "early adopters" in marketing jargon buy the latest 'thingy'.
They can then get all the problems and the bits that don't work, that fail early etc.
Once it has been stabilised, the updates/bug fixes brought out........
The price will have come down
Only then is it safe for you to buy.
Of course if a sizeable section of the consuming public was not obsessed by the latest thingy, always wanting something new, and indeed willing to pay over the odds for it then this sort of thing would not happen, and products would be properly designed in the first place.



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tonyappuk

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2013, 11:22:23 AM »

It's not just poor design it's poor testing/quality control and the very fact that something that is new  means it probably has undiscovered faults. I have never bought a new car or a new boat for this reason. I let some other unfortunate persuaded that he must have new, discover them first. 
Tony
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HPsauce

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2013, 11:44:05 AM »

I have never bought a new car
One car I bought wasn't "new" as such, it was about a year old when I bought it, but it had been doubly new when the first owner got it - i.e. a brand new car of a brand new (radical!) design.

It was in fact a Ford Focus, one of the first off the production line in 1998 and I still have it as it approaches its 15th birthday and going strong at almost 120,000 miles. I've just picked it up from my local garage where it's had an annual service and MOT.

I've seen several comments from people "in the know" saying that Ford really "got it right" with the Focus and the first ones were all built extremely well, cost-cutting set in later.  8)
And of course there are huge numbers on the road so no problem with parts and maintenance.  :)
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JGO

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2013, 12:26:13 PM »

I won't be upgrading until 802.11ac is finalised and I recommend this to all people.
Of course if a sizeable section of the consuming public was not obsessed by the latest thingy, always wanting something new, and indeed willing to pay over the odds for it then this sort of thing would not happen, and products would be properly designed in the first place.

It isn't that simple ! 

From experience a good design is often shot down with :=
It is too expensive/
"We cant't do that, we've never done it before"/
It needs re-training people/

In this particular case people,  marketing in particular, don't realise that WiFi is an unlicenced service so there is no guarantee of any performance.
(The case of the "Windermere Triangle" where a WiFi cash till jammed car door lock systems wholesale is one example of just what may happen.)

It isn't just obsession with the latest thingy but also believing that thingies are no more complicated than spuds !


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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2013, 12:44:59 PM »

It'd be interesting to know what actual transfer rates are acheivable in real world usage?

My previous experience of wireless has been that the advertised 'upto' has always been hugely optimistic, often by an order of magnitude, even for devices sat next to one another. 

UTP ethernet on the other hand can generally get close to the target speeds;  My 100Mbps devices often bubble along at almost exactly 100Mbps, whilst the gigabit devices seem to be limited only by underlying factors like disc I/O and the number-crunching of the CPU in protocol stacks.

I shall watch with interest, but won't be tearing out my Cat 5 wiring just yet. ;)
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2013, 07:10:16 AM »

The problem is, increasing WiFi speeds isn't an answer to the problem (at least not completely) of improving transfer speeds. As you increase the WiFi speeds, other limiting factors come into play, such as a user's hard drive speed!
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JGO

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2013, 05:02:51 PM »

Responding to Sevenyearmuddle, my limited microwave experience suggests that a properly planned point-to-point link does what it is supposed to,  BUT it is designed with at least first Fresnell zone clearance and a narrow aerial beamwidth, say 1 degree. 

With the usual "rubber duck" omnidirectional aerial, the only way to get the same freedom from mulitipath reflections is to hang the router (say) from the ceiling in a room where the other end(s) of the links are located, say a large office, and even then the omni aerials make it succeptible to co-channel interference. Linking the ground floor and the loft say, is optimistic, it might work acceptably but I'd expect it to need some fiddling with aerial position and orientation. 

What would be an improvement would be a miniaturised narrow beam aerial, not for the gain but simply to avoid illuminating potential reflectors and/or picking up interference. AFAIK such a thing doesn't exist because communications or radar engineers don't throw gain away for aesthetics !!

 
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Chrysalis

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2014, 06:54:12 PM »

I love how a technology is being put into consumer routers that isn't even finalised yet.

I remember the first batch of 802.11N routers did not work with the final spec! What's to stop that happening this time?

I won't be upgrading until 802.11ac is finalised and I recommend this to all people.

AC is great, I can only use it one device tho which is the PC I have the AC dongle plugged into (supplied by BT).  The best way to describe it is ethernet level of performance on wireless.

Shame devices sold to consumers are still lagging behind, my wii-u which is a year old tech doesnt even have 5ghz support, unacceptable in my opinion.  The only devices that are keeping up seems to be android phones.

My view is next gen consoles should have had built in 5ghz AC support.  But it seems only the xbox1 has it (still N only not AC) and the ps4 is 2.4ghz only.

I would expect when slim variants of the ps4 and xbox1 get released for them to have 5ghz AC.  consider the size of the games/demos people have to download.
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door_bell

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Re: 'New' wireless technology ??
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2014, 03:45:17 PM »

I love how a technology is being put into consumer routers that isn't even finalised yet.

I remember the first batch of 802.11N routers did not work with the final spec! What's to stop that happening this time?

I won't be upgrading until 802.11ac is finalised and I recommend this to all people.

AC is great, I can only use it one device tho which is the PC I have the AC dongle plugged into (supplied by BT).  The best way to describe it is ethernet level of performance on wireless.

Shame devices sold to consumers are still lagging behind, my wii-u which is a year old tech doesnt even have 5ghz support, unacceptable in my opinion.  The only devices that are keeping up seems to be android phones.

My view is next gen consoles should have had built in 5ghz AC support.  But it seems only the xbox1 has it (still N only not AC) and the ps4 is 2.4ghz only.

I would expect when slim variants of the ps4 and xbox1 get released for them to have 5ghz AC.  consider the size of the games/demos people have to download.

That tickled me a little bit, reminded me of my past.

Was working in projects for a large multi nation retailer who had two stores within LOS. They installed some licenced spectrum 100mb links between the two buildings to make use of a fast internet connection and provide a fail over link for the tills.

Most days, the links would fail around the afternoon.....then correct themselves by the evening before anyone could get out and fix the problem. The store looked for things around that might be on/cause problems - very annoying.

They got the company back after having enough and they arrived in the morning and all was working well. Sure enough, by the afternoon the signal was degrading significantly. After much head scratching, they found the issue.

Turns out both buildings were giant metal sheds essentially. In the blistering sun, BOTH buildings were expanding (we were told) which was enough to throw the narrow beam alignment out. Hence the returning to normal in the evening when the buildings settled back.

The kit was just left on the roof and they got another net connection - wasn't used in any other stores.  :lol:
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