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[james]

A few years ago my ADSL broadband often lost sync when the phone rings or was used for voice calls. There was noise on the line during a quiet line test but it wasn't too bad. I immediately reported it to BT and after a few months the fault was found and fixed. I don't remember much but it was something about a HR fault.

About a year ago the problem returned but it wasn't annoying enough to try to get it resolved. I had switched to TalkTalk so I couldn't do a quiet line test and without much evidence of a fault I didn't think it was worth my time trying to get it resolved.

In August I decided the solution was to order a second phone line and broadband from BT for upstairs and I would stop using the downstairs line for voice calls. However something is preventing Openreach from being able to install a second line. I was told something about a block needing to be resolved by Openreach.

Recently I upgraded to TalkTalk fibre and the noise on the line is much worse sometimes I can't hear the other person speaking.

Another Openreach engineer is booked for tomorrow to install the new line and I hope someone does turn up but I haven't heard the blocked issue is resolved so I won't be surprised if it's another wasted day waiting on an engineer who wasn't ever going to turn up.

I'm looking to try to understand the problem now so I bought a HG612 and I've been running DSLstats and HG612 stats for a few days. I have included graphs showing an 8 hour period containing a few occurrences of the noise problem:

[burakkucat]

Your historic tale is a classic description of a HR or semiconducting joint. As is your current problem. 

Regardless of your CP, the telephony service is currently 'out of specification' and requires an Openreach engineering visit to correct it. Granted you will not obtain 'the menu' when calling 17070 with a TalkTalk service but you can still do a short QLT by just pressing the zero button (for example) and listening before the exchange equipment 'times out' & 'nags' at you. 

If audible noise is present with the SSFP removed and a wired (not cordless) telephone plugged directly into the NTE5/A's 'test socket', then it should be reported as a telephony fault.

[james]

Thanks b*cat.

After the new line engineer visit tomorrow (fingers crossed) I'll check again using the test socket and report it.

[burakkucat]

It will probably be best to report it via the TalkTalk Members' Forum rather than go through a scripted session of '90-silly-questions', as a result of making a telephone call to the customer support centre based in India. 

[james]

Someone at TalkTalk is looking into the noise. It's a lot worse the last few days. Sometimes the SNRM is dropping to 2 and the DLM increased the interleaving depth and INP two mornings in a row.

Happily an engineer did fit the upstairs phone line without incident a few days ago. He talked a little about the order having had 4 surveys and pages and pages of order notes so now it's not so surprising that it took a while.

[kitz]

Sorry , Im not clear, did you get another engineer visit?

[james]

The booked engineer you mean? Yep he came. He installed a second line upstairs.

[james]

Strangely the noise on the line disappeared last night not long after a phone call at 7pm from someone who I thought was from TalkTalk but seemingly was actually Openreach. The call resulted in an appointment for an openreach engineer to visit today between 1pm and 6pm!

I called TalkTalk support around 9pm but they were unable to cancel the openreach engineer appointment as TalkTalk don't have the same access as the person who had made the appointment.

When the openreach engineer arrived I told him the noise fault had disappeared but he said he still needs to perform his tests and not surprisingly he found no fault. He said he had no idea how the noise could disappear like that.

He also said it's likely I will be charged due to no fault found.

[james]

TalkTalk closed the ticket believing the fault was resolved but it has returned.

The crackling noise on the line is back and sometimes the SNRM is dropping/errors are occurring. The noise was noticeable yesterday but it's slowly becoming worse. It occurs when the phone is ringing, when making calls, or when answering an incoming call.

I used my mobile to ring the line but I didn't answer it. I did this twice in succession starting around 18:12. I've included screen shots of DSLstats which show how the ringing affected my broadband.

Because the noise strangely disappeared after TalkTalk or Openreach did "something" it appears the fault can be temporarily cleared. I originally thought it was Openreach but I do not know who arranged the engineer visit after clearing the fault. It may have been TalkTalk "second line" support.

I will ensure further Openreach engineer visits are at least a week after the next temporary fix (if it happens) to allow the line a chance to become and remain noisy again when the engineer is due to visit. Obviously there is no guarantee the engineer will find a fault but I don't think there is anything else I can do.

[james]

I have included a SNRM graph showing a different type of instability.

The line had been idle for hours (no calls in or out) until the drop to ~3.5 occurred which was when I listened to the dial tone for cracking sounds and there was some crackling but as you can see in the graph my listening to the dial tone resulted in the instability clearing soon after.

I called TalkTalk support using my other line to request they run their test but as expected that test did not find a fault. The last downstream SNRM drop (a small V) is what happens when TalkTalk support run their test.

[burakkucat]

Approximately one hour of line "silliness". 

At present, I do not know what else to suggest. Please continue to update this thread with information, as it is observed. Hopefully we will (eventually) "see the cause".

[james]

The Openreach engineer visit was a waste of time and TalkTalk support has also been a waste of time. It is ridiculous that Openreach and TalkTalk performed the same test which I now know is unlikely to fail even when the noise fault I have reported is occurring while the test is being run.

I am now thinking the difficulty in causing someone at Openreach to attempt to resolve the problem is more to do with billing than a lack of actionable fault finding.

[Chrysalis]

My view of the QPT is that it is designed to pass.  Any software based test will do what you tell it to do, the parameters are how have been configured.  The occasions it does fail is probably when a serious fault is present and already obvious.

[james]

All I needed to do was ring then land line resulting in thousands of CRC errors and millions of FEC errors which causes TalkTalk's internet based TV channels to break up very badly.

I demonstrated the fault to a TalkTalk engineer and he has since escalated it so I am to expect a call to arrange another Openreach engineer visit.

I read about Copper Integrated Demand Testing (CIDT) and I am hopeful I will be able to request this type of testing.

[burakkucat]

Slowly and surely the objective is achieved! 

There is, without any doubt, a HR or semiconducting joint somewhere in the metallic pathway. 

Let's hope that you will now receive a visit by an appropriate Openreach technician.