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[gareths]

As an O2 user due to be migrated to Sky I am currently looking at some of the alternatives. My telephone exchange and cabinet are both enabled for FTTC, but until recently FTTC never showed up on the BT wholesale checker for my number.

In January of last year James from Adsl24 had this response from Openreach:
"Unfortunately this line does not qualify for FTTC. I've checked with the experts who have confirmed that this circuit has a high DB line loss. Approximately 18db loss on the exchange-side and a further 26db loss on the cabinet-side. Consequently it does not meet the threshold required for FTTC. This line is somewhat unusual in that it has a relatively short exchange-side but a longer cabinet-side. It's not a scenario we see often."

I was wondering if this would still be the case and would I see a speed increase on FTTC?

The checker at the moment shows "Up to 0.1 Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)" and "Up to 0.9 Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)" for WBC FTTC. I sync at 8-10Mbps / 1.2Mbps on O2 llu (SN Margin 6.5db). Thanks in advance for any replies.

[Bald_Eagle1]

This line is somewhat unusual in that it has a relatively short exchange-side but a longer cabinet-side. It's not a scenario we see often."

I was wondering if this would still be the case and would I see a speed increase on FTTC?

The checker at the moment shows "Up to 0.1 Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)" and "Up to 0.9 Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)" for WBC FTTC. I sync at 8-10Mbps / 1.2Mbps on O2 llu (SN Margin 6.5db). Thanks in advance for any replies.

It very much depends on your actual line length from the cabinet.
Do you have any idea what the length is from the cabinet?

Did you have to use the postcode rather than telephone No. to get the estimate?
If so, do you know any BT phone numbers in your vicinity that you could run through the checker?
The postcode checker is known to be quite inaccurate.

[gareths]

I used the phone number on the wholesale checker. The postcode checker doesn't show FTTC at all.

Telephone Number 0120488XXXX on Exchange TOTTINGTON is served by Cabinet 5

WBC FTTC   Up to 0.1   Up to 0.9   --   16-Oct-13
ADSL Max   Up to 2.5   --   1.5 to 5   Available

I was getting 7Mbps on ADSL Max before I migrated to O2 llu.

I was told by an engineer in the past who came to fix the line that it went up to a cabinet a mile away at the "Hare and Hounds junction". I think he means this one. Plotting the route on google maps looks like this.

[burakkucat]

I was told by an engineer in the past who came to fix the line that it went up to a cabinet a mile away at the "Hare and Hounds junction". I think he means this one.

Neither of those two cabinets belong to Beattie. One of them will be for the mobile telephone mast in between them.

However travel south from that location to the start of Bolton Road West, opposite the junction with Longsight Road (just to the right of Grahams & Platform One Gallery) and outside those new looking properties, there is a Beattie PCP visible.

Plotting the route on google maps looks like this.

How sure are you that the route you have highlighted is that taken by the D-side cable to the DP, from which the service cable runs to your home?

Looking at the map, I tend to think that along Longsight Road, then into Newcombe Road and Summerseat Lane would be a more likely route.

[gareths]

Ah maybe that's it then. The engineer told me the line went up Summerseat Lane to a cabinet at the Hare and Hounds junction then back to the exchange. I don't think it would go up Newcombe Road then up Longsight as there is a cabinet opposite Newcombe Road (I think that's a BT cabinet). 

When I put in the number of someone I know who lives on Summerseat Lane round the corner from me it returns:
WBC FTTC   Up to 9.4   Up to 1   --   16-Oct-13
ADSL Max   Up to 8   --   7 to 8   Available

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond to me thanks.

[burakkucat]

The engineer told me the line went up Summerseat Lane to a cabinet at the Hare and Hounds junction then back to the exchange. I don't think it would go up Newcombe Road then up Longsight as there is a cabinet opposite Newcombe Road (I think that's a BT cabinet).

Ah ha, so you have been given partial details of the D-side route by someone who should definitely know.    And yes, you are absolutely correct, that is one of Beattie's PCPs in Longsight  Road, opposite the junction with Newcombe Road. 

When I put in the number of someone I know who lives on Summerseat Lane round the corner from me it returns:
WBC FTTC   Up to 9.4   Up to 1   --   16-Oct-13
ADSL Max   Up to 8   --   7 to 8   Available

That certainly does not look very good. With a D-side loop-loss of 26 dB, I suspect that aluminium cored cables have been used.  

Assuming the screen, from which the information above is obtained, also states "Telephone Number 0120488XXXX on Exchange TOTTINGTON is served by Cabinet 5" then it might be worthwhile checking to see which number is marked on the PCP, located near Grahams.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond to me thanks.

You're welcome. 

Edited to add: Having found the exchange's location, I can now see that your pair makes a big arc in its path from you to the PCP and then finally to the exchange. Couple that with the use of an aluminium D-side and you were doing very well to achieve 7 Mbps DS on the ADSL Max service.

Further edited: Perhaps our very own tame Openreach Technician, Black Sheep, will be able to provide some figures with regards to the maximum loop-loss permitted for the various xDSL services, please? 

[Black Sheep]

For clarity, if you are served by PCP5 out of Totty, then it is outside 467 Bolton Rd. This is a neighbouring patch to myself, and I've often grafted on this patch when workstacks dictate.

As B*Cat has alluded to, the dB loss is quite high at 26dB. It's not so much the line-length from PCP to premises, as it is the size and type of the cable make-up. Alas, many D-side cables (PCP to Pole/Underground DP), are singular feeds, ie: unlike E-side cables (Exchange to PCP), we very rarely have the opportunity to swap you onto a better, lower loss, cable.

You are at the higher end at 26dB, but one thing I do know is that the 'Guesstimator' underestimates the predicted speeds by some margin, plus the 'sub-15Meg' rulings have been removed a while back. Basically, try and find a provider who is willing to give the installation a go and see if you're happy with the outcome ??

Sorry for quick response, will have a look on again later. 

[gareths]

burakkucat - I think the highest I had on ADSL Max was 7.4Mbps. What you're saying about the line arc is exactly what the engineer said about it and how it made fixing an intermittent hr fault a complete pain. It's a shame the line doesn't go to the cabinet opposite Newcombe Road as that would be less than half the distance.

Black Sheep - Thanks for the info - a few years ago when I was on ADSL Max an engineer did swap my cable with someone else's at the pole to fix a

hr fault; it sorted out my disconnections and crackling on the phone line, but reduced upstream and downstream sync a little.

The reason I'm asking about FTTC is it seems if I don't want to go with Sky llu then I'd be back on Adsl Max as BT don't do ADSL2 on the Tottington exchange.

[Black Sheep]

Just had a quick gander at your route and it's bad news I'm afraid.

Firstly though, the route you think your circuit takes is absolutely correct. The only change is, when it gets back from your premises along Summerseat Ln to the junction of Bolton Rd West, the cable turns left there (heading towards Bolton if you like), for approx. 180mtrs.

The downside is that the entire length of your circuit is mostly made up of Aluminium cable from the PCP to the junction of Harcles Av/Summerseat Ln. Its only then copper cable, from here to whichever is your DP (Telegraph Pole) either DP255 or DP294 ?? No matter which really, as it is only a maximum of 200mtrs to the furthest DP.

There are four spine cables leaving the PCP all feeding in that direction, and they are all Ali cables. 

[gareths]

Ah that's a bummer; would the line being mostly Aluminium go some way towards explaining all the faults that have had to be fixed over the years?

I'm guessing the DP will be the one furthest away, although there are 2 poles at the end of the cul de sac. Looks like I'm stuck with Sky then as I don't really fancy TalkTalk llu or a move back to ADSL Max.

Thanks for the information though, I really appreciate it!

[Black Sheep]

Ah that's a bummer; would the line being mostly Aluminium go some way towards explaining all the faults that have had to be fixed over the years?

I'm guessing the DP will be the one furthest away, although there are 2 poles at the end of the cul de sac. Looks like I'm stuck with Sky then as I don't really fancy TalkTalk llu or a move back to ADSL Max.

Thanks for the information though, I really appreciate it!

Regarding your first question, that's impossible to say I'm afraid. Yes, Ali cable gauges are thinner and weaker and are more susceptible to damage, when we hairy-ass'd jointers are rummaging around in cable joints. No amount of care can guarantee we won't 'disturb' a circuit.

The two poles at the end of the close, our records only show one DP (Main distribution point), so I'm pretty sure the 'other' pole will be what we term a 'Carrier pole'. It's probably there in this instance, to raise the height of the wires, as they may be too low if the houses were fed directly from the DP. As we know though, it's all pie-in-the-sky as it doesn't make any difference to the majority of the cable make-up.