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Author Topic: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please  (Read 11709 times)

4AGZE

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Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« on: September 25, 2013, 09:51:04 PM »

Hi Everyone,

Hope soemone can give me some advice/guidance.
I am planning to move my ADSL router to a new room and need to recable and also need to add a phone point.
My Master socket is not used as its location is not suitable and currently the ASDL router hangs of an extension

The attached pic is what I am proposing to do:

Master socket - was planning on adding either ADSL Nation XTE-2005 or BT VDSL Faceplate
Wiring between master and existing socket is already in place. Only intend to use unfiltered from faceplate to first extension.

Bedroom 1 - Intention is to extend from this socket to Bedroom 2 using CW1308 cable - unfiltered.

Bedroom 2 - Use XTF-85 for phone and ADSL router

Bedroom 3 - Extend from Bedroom 2 XTF-85 using CW1308

Hopefully that makes sense!

Couple of questions I have
ADSL Nation XTE-2005 or BT VDSL Faceplate? I have read not much difference except BT is passive ASDL Nation is active, also apparently the passive means less likelyhood of something failing?

XTF-85 is there an alternative ot is this a good option?

Also is it worth buying a high speed ADSL RJ11 cable or is it possible to make my own? CAT 6 cable with a couple of RJ11 plugs I have access to a crimping tool.

Is my approach sound?  :-\

Thanks in advance.



« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 09:58:57 PM by 4AGZE »
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sheddyian

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2013, 11:55:46 PM »

I had an ADSL Nation filtered faceplate, and found it to be good (had some as then undiagnosed internal wiring issues which this circumvented).

Later I got a BT VDSL faceplate, and did a few quick tests to compare the two, and found their performance to be equally good - though I'm near the exchange, wasn't suffereing from interference at the time and had by then resolved the wiring fault on the extension sockets.

My gut feeling is go for the BT VDSL faceplate.  I'd be interested what others think.

Also not sure about your wiring plan.. have feeling there might be a simpler way, but not sure. 

Ian
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kitz

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2013, 01:08:03 AM »

Hi :)

If I understand the diagram correctly, a reminder that you will still need to use splitter type filters in Bedroom 1 & Bedroom 3. 


Quote
ADSL Nation XTE-2005 or BT VDSL Faceplate? I have read not much difference except BT is passive ASDL Nation is active, also apparently the passive means less likelyhood of something failing?

Dont know - perhaps someone else will comment - I thought they were much of a muchness. :/

Quote
XTF-85 is there an alternative ot is this a good option?

They do seem to get good reviews.

Quote
Also is it worth buying a high speed ADSL RJ11 cable or is it possible to make my own? CAT 6 cable with a couple of RJ11 plugs I have access to a crimping tool.

Just to confirm... you thinking of making a cable for between the XTF-85 to your router? 
If so, and its only a short distance from the XTF-85... unless you have a problematic line, general consensus tends to be doubt you will find that much difference between the high-speed cable and normal cable will be just fine.. and most people see no gain for buying the expensive Belkin cable.  If you think about it, most of the internal wiring is via CW1308 anyhow.

If you do want to spend extra pennies I think I'd personally be putting in a filtered faceplate such as the clarity LJ3F/LJ4F or replacing with another XTF-85 for the voice in bedroom 1.

Quote
Also not sure about your wiring plan.. have feeling there might be a simpler way, but not sure.

I suppose depends on house layout.   NTE  --> bedroom 2 =====> spur to bedrooms 1 & 3 would possibly be best solution.
 
I'm taking that the NTE is in a hall or lounge...  and since the wiring to bedroom 1 is already in place its likely that the above suggestion would mean  re-routing cable from the NTE all the way upstairs to the bedrooms? 
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4AGZE

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2013, 06:15:08 PM »

Hi thanks for the input I have thought about it a bit more and modified my design a little. See attached.

Master Socket
So basically use a BT VDSL and a face plate with ring wire choke.
from here send out ADSL unfiltered and voice extensions on the same cable up to bedroom 1

Bedroom 1
Connect the voice pair to the outlet and extend onto the CW1308
ADSL pair gel crimped onto another pair on the CW1308

Bedroom 2
ADSL pair to either LF4F or XTF-85 or alternatively directly to a RJ45 outlet?
Voice pair to either a connection block or 3 way gel crimps  - one to go to voice for bedroom 2 and the other to serve bedroom 3

Bigest question I have is how the the ADSL pair should terminate? Is there any benefit in using either LF4F or XTF-85 at that point?

Thanks again for the input so far.

 :police: :police: :police: :police: :police:
(my son was watching me type this up and insisted I use the police smiley)  :police: :police: :police:
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burakkucat

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2013, 11:36:06 PM »

I prefer your second wiring proposal.  :)

Two comments, both relating to bedroom two:

(1) It would be much neater to use the secondary (telephony) socket as the junction between the cables from bedrooms one and three. (Just like what you intend to do in bedroom one.)

(2) I would recommend using either an RJ-11 or an RJ-45 socket for the xDSL outlet.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 11:39:06 PM by burakkucat »
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4AGZE

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2013, 03:28:27 PM »

Thanks guys really appreciate the help.

So when it comes to bedroom 2 the intention is now to house the router and junction box/gel crimps in the airing cupboard next to the room and just run a RJ45 point for the pc and a BT point into the bedroom. as illustrated.

First Question: Gel crimps or connection box???

Second Question: as the ADSL pair is essentially now going direct to the router no filter plate required - right? Just put a RJ11 connector on the end and plug it into the router.

Hopefully I will wire up in a few days.
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burakkucat

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2013, 06:48:31 PM »

First Question: Gel crimps or connection box???

Whichever you are happiest using. Personally I would use something like a BT77A as I have an insertion tool but not a crimping tool.  ;)

Quote
Second Question: as the ADSL pair is essentially now going direct to the router no filter plate required - right?

Correct. The modem/router has an inbuilt high-pass filter which will block the low frequency POTS.

Quote
Just put a RJ11 connector on the end and plug it into the router.

No.  :no:  Either install an RJ45 socket (which will accept both an RJ11 and an RJ45 plug) or an RJ11 socket close to the location where the modem/router will be sited. Then use an RJ11 to RJ11 patch lead to connect the modem/router to the socket.

 :graduate:
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4AGZE

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2013, 10:04:22 PM »

Thanks burakkucat

I do have an insertion tool but the gel crimps are very easy too, just insert the wires and use a pair of pliers to close them.
see the link below

http://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-Scotchlok-Filled-Crimps-Packet/dp/B007FGT1I4/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1380315617&sr=1-1&keywords=3m+gel+crimps


Just a question as to why a RJ45 socket and RJ11 patch cable should be used? Isn't it essentially the same as just putting a RJ11 plug on the end of the cw1308 cable and plugging that into the router? or is there something I am missing??
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neilius

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2013, 10:31:22 PM »

Careful with pliers on gel crimps - they will push down harder on one side of the crimp and you have no way of stopping them in precisely the right place, unless you use the right tool which has parallel pushing surfaces which leave a pre-set gap as well.

I'd go with IDC myself unless the joints are in a moist environment and need 100% sealing.
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burakkucat

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2013, 11:47:56 PM »

Just a question as to why a RJ45 socket and RJ11 patch cable should be used? Isn't it essentially the same as just putting a RJ11 plug on the end of the cw1308 cable and plugging that into the router? or is there something I am missing??

CW1308 specification cable is solid core which is designed be installed and not 'flexed about'. The latter is bound to happen, with eventual failure, if you persist with your above plan.  ::)  :-X

Also 'crimp-able' RJ11 plugs are designed for multi-stranded wires, not single solid cores!
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neilius

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2013, 08:16:02 AM »

Hmmm just a thought.... What if the OP used Cat5e cable instead? Perhaps a little thicker and unsightly, it's still solid core but the cores are thicker and plugs are crimped onto it as common practice.

Edit: my bad, seems you can get stranded versions of Cat5e for crimping/patching and the solid stuff is for installation. But stranded Cat5e would make a really good choice for patching your router to the socket.

Although in all honesty having one more connection in the chain (socket and patch) will have a negligible effect on the signal, if any. It would be the more practical solution.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 08:29:00 AM by neilius »
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roseway

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2013, 08:26:36 AM »

Cat5e patch cables should be made with stranded conductors, not solid. Good (reliable) practice is to use solid conductors for fixed wiring and stranded conductors for flexible wiring. I'm with b*cat on this one.
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  Eric

c6em

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2013, 11:12:36 AM »

I'm also with the above
The professionals will use solid core cat 5 to wire up infrastructure cabling in buildings and they will be wired to a patch panel(s)....basically RJ45 IPC type sockets on a standardised strip of metal which fits into an again standardised housing/rack.
Users/IT people then use stranded cat 5 premade patch cords with RJ45 plugs at either end to wire from these patch panels to the item - computer/printer/whatever.
Stranded is flexible and can be flexed all the time, infrastructure is solid and really does not like being flexed at all and additionally will have in the spec a minimum bend radius permitted....which will be larger than you might think.

Standard RJ45 plugs bought use IPC type connections which when crimped with the appropiate RJ45 crimp tool press the spike on the back of the connector into the stranded cable.
Now you can if you look specifically for them buy RJ45 plugs suitable for solid core cable which have some sort of cup on the end so they still capture the solid core in the individual cat5 wire.
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4AGZE

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2013, 02:14:17 PM »

Thanks for all the advice guys I now understand why to use the RJ45 socket and a patch cable to the router, its simple when you know why. ;)

Have done most of the work apart from the BT VDSL plate which arrives today hopefully and the RJ45 socket, just one last question when wiring the AB connection from the VDSL plate to the RJ45 socket which connection goes to which number ie.
A to 2   and B to 5?
or
A to 5 and B to 2

Once again thanks for the help and knowledge transfer!
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neilius

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Re: Advice on ADSl/Telephone wiring please
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2013, 08:40:25 PM »

It doesn't matter which way round you wire it as long as you use wires from the same twisted pair. The standard with CW1308 cable is to use the blue/white pair and single orange with white rings for internal extensions coming off the master.

For reference though, the drop wire going from the pole or coming from underground going to your master socket (which all belongs to BT and that you shouldn't touch) orange wire goes to A and the white wire goes to B. A goes to terminal 5 and B goes to terminal 2.

From there, for your extensions, using CW1308 cable, the blue wire with white rings goes to 2 and the white wire with blue rings goes to 5. The orange wire with white rings comes off the capacitor in the master socket on terminal 3 to provide a ringing current for older phones that use a mechanical bell, or in fact am standalone bell itself, but many people leave it out altogether as it can introduce interference into an ADSL signal (although modern NTE5A master sockets have a filter for it now) - do a quick search for 'ring wire removal' to learn more about that.

The A wire will be at 0V and the B wire will be at -50V when the line is idle. You can check it with a multimeter to verify the polarity is correct, although it doesn't really matter.
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