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Author Topic: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change  (Read 42680 times)

Chrysalis

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2013, 12:30:21 PM »

Since my bandplan change my DS snr is terrible, I could drop right down to 3db from 6.5 in evenings now, as before the change my snr would hardly bugde, maybe drop 1.5db.

same here it was steady at 6db in the evening but now going below 4.4db and thats since the firmware update on modem and my interleaving Depth has gone from 455 before update last friday to 1215 so what is this new BandPlan and what is it for and it's not working and it's making things worse for me anyway.....

Am I starting to see a pattern here, our connection at work has also deteriorated since the modem update, interleaving now being at  1429. See my thread here. Things turned bad yesterday, but the modem updated towards the end of last week.

yeah after I noticed the tone reductions on all 3 bands I disabled my tr069 again I will keep the older firmware.  The update looks worse to me on the band plan, and I have seen more than you 2 guys complain about performance/stability.
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Greybeard33

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2013, 07:05:50 PM »

greybeard I will post my bitloading so you can see how bad my adsl power cutback is, yours seems mild in comparison. Also note how weak my D1 is.  Which considering your line is longer is odd.  I also found a line on the btcare forums, that guy has almost no power cutback at all, barely a dent in his D1.

here is the link.

Also I now posted how my bits and snr looked in dec 2012. Even back then the power cutback was removing approx 15mbit of attainable sync.  Some people seem to be barely losing 5mbit from the cutback.  Also if you remember my earlier comment ref crosstalk, you can see my D3 is least affected by it.

http://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity/Compare-Graph-stats-please/m-p/1044242/highlight/true#M113165
Hmm, puzzling. As far as the ADSL power cutback is concerned, I think it depends mainly on the length of the line on the E-side of the cabinet. The further the cabinet is from the exchange, the weaker the ADSL DS signals are by the time they get there, so the more the VDSL power has to be cut back to avoid swamping them with crosstalk. My cab is only about 800m from the exchange; I suspect yours is further away whereas the guy whose stats you linked has a cab that is very close to the exchange.

However, as you say, that has nothing to do with the D2 band, or the D1 above the ADSL frequencies. You certainly seem to have had a loss of SNR in both bands, resulting in reduced bitloading. Whereas SNR and bitloading have actually improved at the top of the D3 band. I still do not think this can be caused by crosstalk from other VDSL lines, or you would be seeing the opposite effect - the biggest loss at the top of D3, reducing at lower frequencies. Also your graphs are quite smooth, without much of the jagged, notched, profile I see on mine from some tones being worse affected by noise than others. So if your problem is interference, it must be some sort of "white noise" source spread across the frequency spectrum - no idea what that could be.

Another explanation might be that a power cutback has been applied to the D2 & upper D1 bands, but I have no idea why that should be either.
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NewtronStar

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2013, 09:20:50 PM »


yeah after I noticed the tone reductions on all 3 bands I disabled my tr069 again I will keep the older firmware.  The update looks worse to me on the band plan, and I have seen more than you 2 guys complain about performance/stability.

4 days on after update & bandplan changed the only thing I see thats changed is 2.5X more interleaving has been added but will wait to see if that changes in the next 2 weeks if not I am stuck with it, the other is US seems consitantly better, my DS even with Interleaving depth of 1215 it's still giving me a Path: of 28632 Kbps which is odd as the last time with High Interleaving (before firmware update and BandPlan change) it was 24500 Kbps.

TBH I am still in observation mode since the change's  and it's not as bad as I first thought when looking deeper into old stats and the one's I am seeing to-day  :-\
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2013, 09:24:54 PM »

Could you post a zipped Plink log since the changes or email it to me for a closer look?

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NewtronStar

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2013, 09:52:45 PM »

Yep no problem ! BE1 -> plink uploaded
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 10:23:34 PM by NewtronStar »
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burakkucat

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2013, 10:43:39 PM »

yeah after I noticed the tone reductions on all 3 bands I disabled my tr069 again I will keep the older firmware.  The update looks worse to me on the band plan, and I have seen more than you 2 guys complain about performance/stability.

Please take care, for the BT Agent != TR-069;)

It is via her own proprietary busy-body, the BT Agent, that Beattie pushes out the firmware updates, whilst it seems that the CPE and line performance is monitored by TR-069. Until such time that someone de-compiles (and then reverse engineers) the BT Agent, its behaviour is still a big unknown.  :(
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2013, 11:08:28 PM »

Yep no problem ! BE1 -> plink uploaded

This is what it looks like:-

The text formatting still needs sorting out for the pbParams data.

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Chrysalis

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2013, 11:40:50 PM »

greybeard I will post my bitloading so you can see how bad my adsl power cutback is, yours seems mild in comparison. Also note how weak my D1 is.  Which considering your line is longer is odd.  I also found a line on the btcare forums, that guy has almost no power cutback at all, barely a dent in his D1.

here is the link.

Also I now posted how my bits and snr looked in dec 2012. Even back then the power cutback was removing approx 15mbit of attainable sync.  Some people seem to be barely losing 5mbit from the cutback.  Also if you remember my earlier comment ref crosstalk, you can see my D3 is least affected by it.

http://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity/Compare-Graph-stats-please/m-p/1044242/highlight/true#M113165
Hmm, puzzling. As far as the ADSL power cutback is concerned, I think it depends mainly on the length of the line on the E-side of the cabinet. The further the cabinet is from the exchange, the weaker the ADSL DS signals are by the time they get there, so the more the VDSL power has to be cut back to avoid swamping them with crosstalk. My cab is only about 800m from the exchange; I suspect yours is further away whereas the guy whose stats you linked has a cab that is very close to the exchange.

However, as you say, that has nothing to do with the D2 band, or the D1 above the ADSL frequencies. You certainly seem to have had a loss of SNR in both bands, resulting in reduced bitloading. Whereas SNR and bitloading have actually improved at the top of the D3 band. I still do not think this can be caused by crosstalk from other VDSL lines, or you would be seeing the opposite effect - the biggest loss at the top of D3, reducing at lower frequencies. Also your graphs are quite smooth, without much of the jagged, notched, profile I see on mine from some tones being worse affected by noise than others. So if your problem is interference, it must be some sort of "white noise" source spread across the frequency spectrum - no idea what that could be.

Another explanation might be that a power cutback has been applied to the D2 & upper D1 bands, but I have no idea why that should be either.

yep I am far from the exchange, or rather my line routing is long as its very indirect.  So when people say distance from exchange has zilch affect on vdsl, it does actually have an affect as the power cutback is worse on longer E sides.

I wont argue with you much on the crosstalk because I cant say for sure what it is, I can only guess, my gut feeling is it is crosstalk, the cause is between the PCP and FTTC cabinet an engineer diagnosed it the other week, the cause is affecting many pairs between the 2 cabinets, but as far as I know no rectification work has been done yet.  My install engineer insists its crosstalk.  Because it happened when there was installations.

Your theory is crosstalk has more impact where the signal is weaker?

My theory is/was the disturber lines are not using D3 perhaps they too long or something so thats why that is barely affected.

I also have considered the dslam been faulty eg. incorrect power masking been applied cutting back too much, of course if it is that I think it would never get fixed as these cabinets once installed cant be accessed by regional engineers.

I also had some weird behaviour before as well.  I had for a while my sync speed jumping between 73 attainable and nearly 90mbit 86-88 range, it was mostly at 83 tho, but would randomly jump up for short periods of time.  At the same time this was occuring I did have a fault affecting my stability at night which I reported to BT and a engineer came out, the engineer said he found nothing wrong and closed the fault.  But something was changed as the night time instability stopped and the sync speed jumping up to nearly 90mbit also stopped.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2013, 11:57:36 PM »

yeah after I noticed the tone reductions on all 3 bands I disabled my tr069 again I will keep the older firmware.  The update looks worse to me on the band plan, and I have seen more than you 2 guys complain about performance/stability.

Please take care, for the BT Agent != TR-069;)

It is via her own proprietary busy-body, the BT Agent, that Beattie pushes out the firmware updates, whilst it seems that the CPE and line performance is monitored by TR-069. Until such time that someone de-compiles (and then reverse engineers) the BT Agent, its behaviour is still a big unknown.  :(

whats the reccomended way to kill btagent?
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NewtronStar

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2013, 12:09:42 AM »


This is what it looks like:-

The text formatting still needs sorting out for the pbParams data.

Your Current Stat's BE works fine, what I noticed in the Profile is the Attn (db): is now showing 24.9 in the down were as the old (before BandPlan & firmware update) showed 0.0

« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 12:14:23 AM by NewtronStar »
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burakkucat

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2013, 12:56:50 AM »

whats the reccomended way to kill btagent?

Establish a telnet connection to the HG612, invoke the busybox shell and issue a killall -KILL start btagent command.

A power-cycle or reboot of the device will turn Beattie's busybody back on.
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kitz

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2013, 01:04:32 AM »

quick reply @ greybeard.

Its my understanding too that crosstalk impacts most on the shorter lines and that its the higher frequencies that are affected most.

However, I dont know if the following info helps, but when on adsl2+ I was one of the first (if not the 1st) people to go on a shiny new  BE MSAN.  At first I could get a full 24Mb, over time this deteriorated to 21Mbps.. most remarkably so when the MSAN started to fill up with o2 users.   

The place where I noticed crosstalk had the most impact though was across the 6,7,8,9,10 Mbps range.   By that I mean the max tones in use by anyone syncing at say 8Mbps would be using.   After tones 260 both my SNR and bit loading started to increase.  At about tone 300 my SNR was better than say tone 130.   It was all a nice smooth dip bit like a shallow bowl.   Somewhere around tone 255 (8Mb) was my lowest SNR...  until tone 460 ish.
This saucer shape meant that I could never get full bit loading over the 128 -288 region when in the early days I could.

Obviously the more users that synced at x speed then the worse impact it would have on my snr and bit loading across those tones.   There must have been far fewer people syncing at over 14Mbp, which is why my own SNR was good there and least impacted by other users and would start to rise again.

Hope you get the gist of what Im trying to say..  I possibly have a DMTtool graph from about 2008ish when you could see this happening quite clearly, but its on an old drive that I need to hook up to the network sometime to transfer some data from. :/ 

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kitz

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2013, 01:10:44 AM »

whats the reccomended way to kill btagent?

Establish a telnet connection to the HG612, invoke the busybox shell and issue a killall -KILL start btagent command.

A power-cycle or reboot of the device will turn Beattie's busybody back on.

At first I wasnt going to bother and thought that the separation in tones may actually be a good thing as far as crosstalk goes, and I was going to let it happen as im not too bothered about the webgui as long as I can still telnet into the router.

However now Im not too sure if some are saying that they are being left without any access and that the algorithms may not be as good causing some SNR instability.  Obviously this will impact on errors which in turn could invoke the DLM.  I have spare SNR,  but this pair Im on now doesnt have as much spare, and Im actually seeing more variance on the downstream SNRm than the old pair. 

I think I'll turn the BTAgent off.

btw..  it can be done in dslstats too.  I saw eric post a screenshot earlier.
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kitz

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2013, 01:27:17 AM »

b*cat (or someone else) please :)

Can you confirm whether there should be a response from the modem when you issue that command?

See my telnet session.

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Edited to add

Just answered my own question..   If I attempt to do it again then I get

Code: [Select]
# killall -KIll start btagent
killall: start: no process killed
killall: btagent: no process killed
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 01:29:57 AM by kitz »
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burakkucat

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Re: Huawei DSLAM - Band Plan Change
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2013, 02:16:09 AM »

Looking at the image, I can see that the command line was successful. :thumbs:

The expected response is just another busybox shell prompt (#).

Another command you might like to note is ps, which lists all the processes. When your HG612 has been rebooted (reboot from the busybox shell, for example) or power-cycled, you might like to issue the following three commands which will show the effect of the killall command line --

Code: [Select]
ps
killall -KILL start btagent
ps

 ;)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 02:21:34 AM by burakkucat »
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