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Author Topic: Interleaving  (Read 23822 times)

jid

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Interleaving
« on: September 07, 2013, 12:44:02 PM »

Hi Everyone,

Relatively new to VDSL2 stats, got hold of a HG612 and unlocked it today, have managed to extract some stats, but i'm interested if someone could tell me what my Interleaving level is like?

I'm also guessing from my attainable rate, I've a pretty good chance with faster speeds on an 80/20 package?

Thanks for the advice,
Jamie :)

Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max:    Upstream rate = 32595 Kbps, Downstream rate = 96140 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 1999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39999 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        17.5            31.0
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.7            5.2
                        VDSL2 framing
                        Path 0
B:              29              31
M:              1               2
T:              64              36
R:              16              16
S:              0.0239          0.9922
L:              15425           645
D:              2177            1
I:              46              80
N:              46              80
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

Black Sheep

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 01:18:34 PM »

No idea about your interleaving level, but if you've had VDSL switched on for a while and you are still maintaining the full 40/2Meg product, then my guess is interleaving is very low, or nil ?? Someone who knows the letters on the stats page will advise shortly, I'm sure ??

If you went for the 80/20, it appears you would again receive the full whack !!
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jid

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2013, 01:27:20 PM »

No idea about your interleaving level, but if you've had VDSL switched on for a while and you are still maintaining the full 40/2Meg product, then my guess is interleaving is very low, or nil ?? Someone who knows the letters on the stats page will advise shortly, I'm sure ??

If you went for the 80/20, it appears you would again receive the full whack !!

Every since I had FTTC, i've had a ping of 29 - 32ms - currently my upload speed has dropped a bit which suprised me? I'm on a Huawei cab and before had the ECI modem and my main aim was to look for interleaving, I've seen some people on FTTC have a lot lower pings than me!

Good to know in case of upgrade! Thanks for the reply BS  :)
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

roseway

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2013, 01:32:33 PM »

Your downstream interleaving level appears to be 2177, which seems a very strange value, but I know next to nothing about VDSL2.
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jid

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2013, 01:45:37 PM »

Your downstream interleaving level appears to be 2177, which seems a very strange value, but I know next to nothing about VDSL2.


So i'm guessing it's the "D" value thats interleaving depth is it Eric?

Further stats attached in case they work out the interleaving figure's strangeness!
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

roseway

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2013, 02:05:10 PM »

Yes, the D value is interleaving depth. It seems to be quite common on VDSL2 for these odd high values to be applied. I can't see anything in your data to explain it, but there are others here who know far more than I do.
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ColinS

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2013, 02:37:52 PM »

No idea about your interleaving level, but if you've had VDSL switched on for a while and you are still maintaining the full 40/2Meg product, then my guess is interleaving is very low, or nil ?? Someone who knows the letters on the stats page will advise shortly, I'm sure ??
If you went for the 80/20, it appears you would again receive the full whack !!
That's an interesting point.  Jamie seems to be banded on a 40/2 service, so clearly he does have enough headroom to do better than that (achievable rates 96/32.5), if he wished to pay for that.  Why is it not a 40/10 service though - is this a particular ISP IPTV thing, or have they somehow forgot to change the profile?
[Edit] Now looking at his later post, I notice that the U1 band doesn't seem to be in use and tones ~32-450 have no bit loadings.  I wonder if this has anything to do with bandwidth reservation for IPTV? (~420*4.3125kHz=1.8Mb/s????)

Anyway back to Jamie's question.  An Interleaving Depth of 2177 I would suggest is pretty high.  The highest I've seen on my own line was something like 1537, and currently it's 1233-ish.  In my case it seems to be the result of very rare, but extremely high (in the millions/min) rates of (recovered) FECs.  It may be that Jamie's line has experienced something similar.

However, as to achieving the full whack on 80/20, I would suggest it's debateable.  The excess achievable over the 80/20 product banding will not help him in that respect, and since the overhead of that Interleaving depth is R/D, which in his case is 16/46=~35%, I doubt very much that he would get the full 80Mb/s DS.  Again, with reference to my own, my R/D=16/80=20% and I therefore only achieve ~78Mb/s DS.

The other useful parameters here to see would be the INP and delay levels, which if I recall correctly are just a little further down the same stats page as he has posted.

HTH  :)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 05:52:41 PM by ColinS »
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jid

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2013, 02:58:48 PM »

Many thanks for your detailed response!

All I can think - the fact I've had a mis-matched Modem and Cabinet have caused the problem, I will have to leave the uptime increase a few days to get a good sample of error counts, those stats were not posted long after syncing up.

As for the strange 40/2 profile - I'm with TalkTalk and I believe this is the only product they will be offering for an up to 38meg package :)

As for the complete stats, will these be of more help (uptime : 2hrs 28mins):

Code: [Select]
INP:            9.00            0.00
PER:            1.90            13.39
delay:          13.00           0.00
OR:             83.83           57.33

Hopefully these above are what you mean? Complete stats are below :)

Thank you again for your post, it was very informative, I'm quite new to VDSL!

Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max:    Upstream rate = 32559 Kbps, Downstream rate = 96136 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 1999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39999 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        17.5            30.9
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.7            5.2
                        VDSL2 framing
                        Path 0
B:              29              31
M:              1               2
T:              64              36
R:              16              16
S:              0.0239          0.9922
L:              15425           645
D:              2177            1
I:              46              80
N:              46              80
                        Counters
                        Path 0
OHF:            4597483         657669
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             1471193956              1150046
RSCorr:         2314            0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Path 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    677457357               0
Data Cells:     16172761                0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            18              18
AS:             8809

                        Path 0
INP:            9.00            0.00
PER:            1.90            13.39
delay:          13.00           0.00
OR:             83.83           57.33

Bitswap:        31              55

#
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

ColinS

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2013, 03:07:53 PM »

Impulse Noise Protection is 9, and the resultant delay caused is 13msecs  When Rein is detected, it would normally be set starting at 3 & 8 respectively.  So, this suggests that at some time your line seems to have experienced some severe bouts of noise causing errors on the line, and so these parameters have been set by the DSLAM to try and give you a more stable if less performant line.  Of course your package is so far below the line's capabilities that it doesn't seem to be affecting the current service.  As I suggested, if you did move to e.g. 80/20, these issues may well start to impact on what you can achieve.  In other words, you would get more than 40/2 undoubtedly, but probably not 80/20.

It's interesting to see that where the demands on the line are lower, the DSLAM still takes the same actions, but it has no material affect (other than increased stability) on the line's performance.  Having said that, if you are a gamer, I guess an additional 13ms delay might not be something you would welcome.  :-\
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 03:12:10 PM by ColinS »
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burakkucat

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2013, 03:31:46 PM »

As I understand it, our No Feathered VDSL2 expert is away for a few days -- possibly taking Mrs Eagle somewhere expensive, as a penance for not finishing the refurbishment of the Eagle's Nest last year!  :-X  ::)

Once Baldy Bird is back, I am sure he will have an opinion on Jamie's line statistics. One thing that has 'caught my eye' is the very low bit-loading of the low frequency tones . . .  ???
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jid

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2013, 04:27:39 PM »

Impulse Noise Protection is 9, and the resultant delay caused is 13msecs  When Rein is detected, it would normally be set starting at 3 & 8 respectively.  So, this suggests that at some time your line seems to have experienced some severe bouts of noise causing errors on the line, and so these parameters have been set by the DSLAM to try and give you a more stable if less performant line.

One thing that has 'caught my eye' is the very low bit-loading of the low frequency tones . . .  ???

I had problems previously with bit loading on ADSL2+, so its possible these have carried over to when I'm on VDSL2+ (obviously my lines route is still the same, so I was expecting I may have had some issues). Maybe being close to the cab, only round the corner, is helping the stability, I'm not sure.  ???


It's interesting to see that where the demands on the line are lower, the DSLAM still takes the same actions, but it has no material affect (other than increased stability) on the line's performance.  Having said that, if you are a gamer, I guess an additional 13ms delay might not be something you would welcome.  :-\

I am in all honesty not a gamer, I just knew that considering my distance from the cabinet, I would have liked to have seen better Ping times. Now I've got hold of the unlocked modem I am able to see for myself.

The stability I'm much for thankful for over the ping response - we have IPTV, error rates need to be kept as low as possible :) But I wanted to check that for the small cost of the modem from our local auction website, of the true possible performance and any hidden caveats of the connection which seem to still be present  ::)

Thanks to both of you for your replies, and hopefully some light will be shed on the return of the Bald Eagle  :)
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

Chrysalis

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2013, 04:43:50 PM »

yeah the line is interleaved but I am baffled as to why as your line should be in cruise mode.

run this in telnet to show error stats.

xdslcmd info --stats
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jid

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2013, 04:56:36 PM »

yeah the line is interleaved but I am baffled as to why as your line should be in cruise mode.

run this in telnet to show error stats.

xdslcmd info --stats

Can I ask what "cruise mode" is?

Here we go:
Code: [Select]
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max:    Upstream rate = 32734 Kbps, Downstream rate = 95680 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 1999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39999 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        17.4            31.0
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.7            5.2
                        VDSL2 framing
                        Path 0
B:              29              31
M:              1               2
T:              64              36
R:              16              16
S:              0.0239          0.9922
L:              15425           645
D:              2177            1
I:              46              80
N:              46              80
                        Counters
                        Path 0
OHF:            8442381         1207611
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             2701561494              778467
RSCorr:         3559            0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Path 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1244018448              0
Data Cells:     18553515                0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            18              18
AS:             16176

                        Path 0
INP:            9.00            0.00
PER:            1.90            13.39
delay:          13.00           0.00
OR:             83.83           57.33

Bitswap:        134             109

Total time = 4 hours 29 min 54 sec
FEC:            3559            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            18              18
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 14 min 54 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            2               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 4 hours 29 min 54 sec
FEC:            3559            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            18              18
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Since Link time = 4 hours 29 min 35 sec
FEC:            3559            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
#
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

ColinS

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2013, 05:26:52 PM »

One thing that has 'caught my eye' is the very low bit-loading of the low frequency tones . . .  ???
Yes, I wondered about that too and edited my original post accordingly.  I wondered (and still do) if it was bandwidth reservation for Jamie's IPTV?

Anyway, the section in Here called Limitations of the Traditional RS + Interleaver Scheme illustrates how it 'steals your bandwidth' for various values of INP
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jid

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Re: Interleaving
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2013, 05:36:39 PM »

Yes, I wondered about that too and edited my original post accordingly.  I wondered (and still do) if it was bandwidth reservation for Jamie's IPTV?

Anyway, the section in Here called Limitations of the Traditional RS + Interleaver Scheme illustrates how it 'steals your bandwidth' for various values of INP

TalkTalk use Multicast as do BT, so I do wonder if you could be right Colin?

Here's something I collated from Thinkbroadband, ignore the red, the firewall hadn't been opened correctly!



I don't quite know how to interpret this graph, but I'm only guessing it checks for latency and packet loss?

I never get any glitching on the IPTV, which would constitute errors on the connection, which is why I've probably never suspected anything.

Something I would like to know, how can get the Modem stats to be across my network, my HG533 TalKTalk router is at 192.168.1.1, so can I change anything around to make this possible?

Thanks again :)
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather
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