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Author Topic: 2 VDLS2's  (Read 8439 times)

burakkucat

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2013, 10:11:06 PM »

If anyone is interested, I have copies of two PDF format documents that I can share . . .
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kitz

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2013, 10:14:17 PM »

Thank you B*cat..  so if I understand correctly, then they are basically the same other than the 2pair has slightly more of an insulated diameter.  Everything else seems about the same...  except the capacitance unbalance...  anyone know what difference that makes?
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burakkucat

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2013, 10:37:00 PM »

Getting a little bit OT for this thread but here follows four images with the specifications for CW1308 cable . . .
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Chrysalis

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2013, 09:26:14 AM »

Sorry if Im being thick because its a genuine question..  why does a 2 pair make xtalk more likely than over 20/30/50 pair cable.

because the pairs are defenitly next to each other, whilst in a 50 pair the odds are much more in favour.

also twisting doesnt kill crosstalk it just reduces it. twists in dropwires tend to be of less tightness than whats in the ground, and even in the ground its of variable amounts.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 09:28:50 AM by Chrysalis »
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waltergmw

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2013, 11:12:01 AM »

Gentlefolk,

If you have a nice kind engineer who takes the trouble (s)he will sometimes install a dropwire 12 which only has a single pair of thicker conductors.

Kind regards,
Walter

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Chrysalis

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2013, 09:12:17 PM »

I forgot to add I share a 4 pair dropwire with my neighbour, when a engineer temporarily gave me a new dropwire I had over 30mbit added to my attainable sync speed but it was only temporary, BT forced me back to the shared dropwire.
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bossian

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2013, 02:15:11 PM »

Well after all that, Virgin came back to me and offered me the 120/12 service I'm on at 26.00 a month for 12 months on a new 12 month contract! Result ;)

Thanks for all the input on here guys......and after a bit of research, maybe it's better than going down the road of crosstalk and dodgy BT call centres!

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waltergmw

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2013, 08:07:26 PM »

Well done BossIan,

I hope you find VM is more reliable too - ergo fewer call centre investigations, but hope contention doesn't interfere too much.
Many don't realise that their co-axial cable with joint pods means there is far less disturbance (and fewer cable joints) with the main cable and they don't have anything like the birds-nests we see elsewhere. Some of their cabinets do get bashed about a bit so they're not very pretty.

Kind regards,
Walter

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Black Sheep

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2013, 08:30:15 PM »

Fair call about the fewer joints, but 'Birds nest' wiring, (although unsightly), is a) Not as common as some may think, b) Very rarely on view to the EU, and c) Has no detrimental effect whatsoever on service.

Hope you are happy with VM's service ....... god knows, they need the business.  ;) ;D :lol:
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Chrysalis

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2013, 04:09:44 PM »

I am retracting my previous comments about risk of crosstalk, in the past couple of weeks I have seen a few posts from people who have 2 lines in the same DP enabled and they insist they either have no or minimal crosstalk, so this changes the %'s a bit.  Previously I had known 4 accounts of multiple lines in a DP which all had severe crosstalk now I know of 9 with the other 5 not having severe crosstalk.
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bossian

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2013, 09:07:04 PM »

I am retracting my previous comments about risk of crosstalk, in the past couple of weeks I have seen a few posts from people who have 2 lines in the same DP enabled and they insist they either have no or minimal crosstalk, so this changes the %'s a bit.  Previously I had known 4 accounts of multiple lines in a DP which all had severe crosstalk now I know of 9 with the other 5 not having severe crosstalk.

Interesting comment Chrysalis. I'm sorted here at home now with a blend of Virgin and Plusnet FTTC.

Now work is a different thing.....

At my work we have a 20 pair coming onto site to a DP on the front of the building, in that 20 pair there is my new VDSL and an ADSL, which travel across the building roof in a drop wire to the same area. Also in that 20 pair is the companies head office (intranet) ADSL, 2 leased lines and 6 phone lines. The VDSL connection is great, clean and so far, faultless.

So I'm toying with the idea of converting the second ADSL to VDSL too. The 20 pair is around 80 metres from CPC10 to the outside of the building's DP, all the lines and the companies kit is within 5 meters of this DP. The VDSL and ADSL I'm on about is an additional 30 meter away down it's own drop wire across the roof.

I'm pulling 70/20 on the VDSL and 5/.8 on the ADSL....so changing the ADSL to VDSL would be a benefit, even if there is crosstalk. I'm back next week, will give BT business a call and see how much this extra change will cost me.

If nothing else, it may be an excellent opportunity for me to gather some info for us guys on the effects of 2 VDSL's on the same drop wire ;)
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Black Sheep

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2013, 07:29:40 AM »

Go for it, Bossian.

I have to say, the comment about gaining 30Meg just by being moved to a different DW, has never been heard of before ?? Assuming the DW goes 'Pole to premises', the longest span we can erect is 68mtrs. So, are we to believe that crosstalk in 68mtrs of DW causes 30Meg of speed-loss ?? As I say, with plenty of experience in this arena, I have never heard of that, ever.

By having another VDSL line in your 'bundle', will have very little effect, Bossian.
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bossian

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2013, 08:15:40 AM »

I forgot to mention the 20 pair from the CPC to the DP on the building is underground in it's own duct.

The extra 30 meters of drop wire is just laid loosely across the roof. I did this as it was a shorter way than trying to go around the inside of the building....that would have added another 50 meters to the run!
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Chrysalis

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2013, 09:02:01 PM »

Go for it, Bossian.

I have to say, the comment about gaining 30Meg just by being moved to a different DW, has never been heard of before ?? Assuming the DW goes 'Pole to premises', the longest span we can erect is 68mtrs. So, are we to believe that crosstalk in 68mtrs of DW causes 30Meg of speed-loss ?? As I say, with plenty of experience in this arena, I have never heard of that, ever.

By having another VDSL line in your 'bundle', will have very little effect, Bossian.

adsl24 reported they lost 30meg or so when they enabled a 2nd line in a bundle. aaisp have also reported on their blog of users occasionally seeing sudden large drops of sync speed when a neighbour gets enabled, not frequently but occasionally.

I do wonder what would have happened if you was my engineer investigating my issue earlier in the year, because some of your comments go against the BT trend, eg. I have been told by the CEO office staff and 3 engineers that 30+ mbit of lost attainable sync speed is normal part of the service and expected.  I then temporarily had a new DW fitted and my speed comes back (but then I couldnt keep it) and then last week I gain this 30mbit attainable speed again (temporarily) simply from an engineer swapping my pair between the 2 cabinets, that is what? maybe 20metres to the cabinet and back.

I can only guess based on your comments the condition of the cables in my area must be in a sorry state compared to the area you work in.  Although if you know another possible cause for the problems I am seeing it would be appreciated as so far you havent commented on any of my posts.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 09:07:13 PM by Chrysalis »
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Black Sheep

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Re: 2 VDLS2's
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2013, 10:02:06 PM »

My mistake. I mis-read the quote ....... I thought you meant actual speed, not attainable.
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