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[DeadMan]

DLM reset the other day at a time when my US SNRM was in it's low phase (So resynced at 18 instead of 20 annoyingly) and  DS sync went up. However I did a few speedtests and am still getting the same DS speed as before the resync. I think the profile is not updating yet. I tried resetting the router which usually fixes it but no dice. How long does it take for it to realize the sync rate is a lot higher and adjust the profile?

Also some strange stats below. Note the sudden drop in DS FEC errors, DS_RSCorr and DS_RS (I don't know what these mean BTW). Especially the DS_RS 'peaks' vanishing.

# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 2
Max:    Upstream rate = 18658 Kbps, Downstream rate = 71504 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 18466 Kbps, Downstream rate = 70142 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.3             6.2
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.3            6.7
                        VDSL2 framing
                        Path 0
B:              239             239
M:              1               1
T:              21              64
R:              0               14
S:              0.1089          0.4135
L:              17632           4914
D:              1               1
I:              240             127
N:              240             254
                        Counters
                        Path 0
OHF:            71867034                952474
OHFErr:         4953            372
RS:             0               2931226
RSCorr:         0               2060
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Path 0
HEC:            31601           0
OCD:            1051            0
LCD:            1051            0
Total Cells:    3798823046              0
Data Cells:     103314107               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             1724            1994
SES:            48              2
UAS:            1022            1022
AS:             123741

                        Path 0
INP:            0.00            0.00
PER:            1.71            6.61
delay:          0.00            0.00
OR:             111.94          33.85

Bitswap:        17064           4863

Total time = 1 days 7 hours 29 min 6 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            4953            0
ES:             1724            1994
SES:            48              2
UAS:            1022            1022
LOS:            16              0
LOF:            41              0
Latest 15 minutes time = 14 min 6 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            38              0
ES:             20              4
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            525             0
ES:             20              14
SES:            0               2
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 7 hours 29 min 6 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            995             0
ES:             273             80
SES:            0               2
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            3820            0
ES:             967             170
SES:            3               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Since Link time = 1 days 10 hours 22 min 19 sec
FEC:            0               2060
CRC:            4953            372
ES:             1319            269
SES:            3               2
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
#

[kitz]

>>> How long does it take for it to realize the sync rate is a lot higher and adjust the profile?

Million dollar question Im afraid   Someone with a bit more experience than me of having DLM changes on FTTC may be able to answer.

You could try doing a BT Performance check to see what your current profile is
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btwperformancetest.htm

>>> Note the sudden drop in DS FEC errors, DS_RSCorr and DS_RS


Quick link to what they mean
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats_errors.htm

But basically it would appear that your line is quite happy at its current sync speed and therefore not producing any errors.   FEC's arent as important as RS Corrected, the less RSCorr the better. This usually happens when your SNRm is higher and the line isnt as noisy.

[DeadMan]

I want to know why I am not getting closer to the 68mbits profile. I am synced at 71/20.

[kitz]

Just noticed that you appear to be with Plusnet.   What is your stable rate set at.

You should be able to check from this page under Current Line Speed.

[Chrysalis]

all isp's except dodgy plusnet is instant on PPP recconect.

plusnet are still in the dark ages so takes a number of days with them.

plusnet seem to have a very high % of forum posters with them, but I dont rate them.

[ColinS]

plusnet are still in the dark ages so takes a number of days with them.

plusnet ... I dont rate them.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, Chrysalis, but exaggeration will not help you make your point.

[kitz]

>> plusnet seem to have a very high % of forum posters with them

Is that this forum?  If so I can only think of 2 regs (& very recently me) who are with them.  I think the likes of TT and BT are just as evenly distributed... and we seem to get a fair balance of all ISPs across those asking for help, although admittedly Ive never done a detailed analysis.

As regards to 'the stable rate' when I get a-round-tuit that is something I intend to look into further. 

[Chrysalis]

plusnet are still in the dark ages so takes a number of days with them.

plusnet ... I dont rate them.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, Chrysalis, but exaggeration will not help you make your point.

so the reports from their customers of waiting days for profile updates are an exaggeration?

[bossian]

I too have noticed the stale ppp connection and slow re-connects with PN. They seem to think I'm getting more drop outs than I really do, I recon 50% are down to PN not replying to my echo requests and mistaking my re-connects as drop outs. They're radius charts seem to match my routers handshake logs nearly perfectly!

I have configured my router to ping the PN gateway I'm connected too at around 2 min intervals to keep my connection, seams to work much better that using the usual ARP way

[ColinS]

so the reports from their customers of waiting days for profile updates are an exaggeration?

If that's what you meant, please try to say more clearly what you mean, Chrysalis.

Those two comments of yours followed this one:

all isp's except dodgy plusnet is instant on PPP recconect.

It was not unreasonable to assume that what you were referring was the PPP timeout, which isn't days, it's currently 8mins falling to 2mins, which is still not short enough, but they have given a reasonable justification for why they cannot do that as yet.

Being economic with words risks being misunderstood, as happened here.  If you want to say that, as a consequence of these long PPP timeouts, then there is a danger that IP profiles may not be updated for days, then just say so.

[Chrysalis]

I called them dodgy as they seem to have a lot of weird problems that I have not seen reports of on any other dsl isp.

in regards to the profile delays.

I replied to this, which is due to plusnet sometimes taking day's to update profiles.  Plusnet have a shadow profile which is their own profile seperate to BTw profile, that shadow profile updates much slower than BTw's.

I want to know why I am not getting closer to the 68mbits profile. I am synced at 71/20.

[ColinS]

in regards to the profile delays.
I replied to this, which is due to plusnet sometimes taking day's to update profiles.  Plusnet have a shadow profile which is their own profile seperate to BTw profile, that shadow profile updates much slower than BTw's.

I want to know why I am not getting closer to the 68mbits profile. I am synced at 71/20.

Please see http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,12786.0.html, and in particular reply#3, which references section 2.1.6 of SIN498, which in turn points out quite clearly

If the PPP/DHCP survives a re-train, then the CP will be unaware of any change in the line rate and will not be able to shape appropriately

that is, if the PPP survives the resync (due to excessive PPP timeout values), no delta report is received from the DSLAM, and therefore no profile update.

So, the problem is actually with the PPP timeout values used by PN's Edge routers, which appears to be a design issue relating to the co-existence of both ADSL and VDSL traffic on the same VLAN (the choice of which for FTTC is dictated by the SIN).  I am not surprised that it presents BT with no problems as they are in the fortunate position of being able to write the requirements of the SIN in a way that they will have no difficulties (and no additional costs) in complying with. They would be extremely foolish to do otherwise.

[Chrysalis]

it presents no other isp's with problems either colin.

its unique to plusnet.

plusnet have already said in an earlier post on their forums the reason they have slow profile updates is that they process profile updates in batches in intervals, not when the user recconects.  This is probably a process they havent bothered to change from the adsl era.   I commented as I dont want people thinking the BTw vdsl has slow profile updates like adsl did, because it doesnt, plusnet is an odd one out isp that has this problem.  Other isp's have instantly updating profiles.

If the ppp survives the resync then also the BTw profile doesnt update ( a problem all isps do have )  however this isnt the problem I am talking about, in plusnet's case's the BTw profile updates (meaning ppp has been reesatablished) but not the shadow plusnet profile.

When the user first posted and I started reading his post I was thinking I bet this is a plusnet user and sadly since plusnet are cheap a big % of people use them that use these and tbb forums so it then gives an impression that the profile system is slow on openreach vdsl.

Then there is the problem that keeps reoccuring (which they still havent fixed yet again) that when a new customer is activated by engineer install they cant login because plusnet havent activated the account.  Plusnet just have too many problems they not fixing that are ongoing. 

[kitz]

We know that it might be an issue with the PN Stable rate not having been updated quick enough and we should surely just be able to advise as such...  and that often a resync will enable the correct profile to be picked up.  Hence me asking Deadman to check his stable rate with PN.

However debating whether or not an ISP is good doesnt much help the OP and we still arent sure yet what the PN stable rate is, nor if this is the solution.

The fact that other ISPs have users with ppp sessions that survive the sync and no IPprofile update indicates that they too are possibly having the same issue with meeting the BTw timings on their equipment too.   The problem with plusnet is they are unique in having a stable rate - which in theory should follow the IPprofile - means that it is more on an issue to their customers.

Yes there can be delays, and yes we can say Plusnet are cheap when compared to other ISPs, but at least their CS staff are generally aware of this problem and they are mostly approachable and knowledgeable.   I can think of ISPs which are far worse and can leave with with incorrect DLM profiles for months.   
Which reminds me I really need to sort out my parents line who appear to be stuck with a 1400 profile on a line that should get around 5Mb.   The only reason I havent is (1) dad only does the email and occasional surfing so never notices - and wouldnt have done until I pointed it out (2) Getting through to the ISP support and going through the tedious reboot stuff (3) Im curious to see if it ever sorts itself, but since were talking over 6 months now and it still hasnt :/

So we know that certain ISPs use certain methods to reduce costs - whether it be Indian call centers..  or finding a way to reduce the amount of traffic passing on their network.   We all know that PN following the IPprofile was a way of them cutting costs on their [old] centrals, which is one of the most expensive costs that any BTw based ISP has to fork out.   

I have no problem with debating about ISPs and such.... but surely the first priority should be helping the OP..  and then if we find out what the problem was, then debate the ISP issue.

[Chrysalis]

the way to see if its a profile issue kitz is run the BT wholesale speedtest, that reports the BTw IP profile.
Then plusnet have a page in their control panel which reports the line rate (or similiar), that is the plusnet IP profile, these 2 should match or at least be close together.

The BT wholesale profile updates 'every' time PPP is connected.

Although I said isp's will be suspectible to the IP profile not updating 'if' PPP doesnt recconect, I didnt say they are having PPP timeout issues (not seen any reports).

By the way plusnet are breaking openreach's (BTw) guideline's which require a ppp timeout of under 30 seconds to be used on FTTC, which is ironic given that its a BT owned isp.

I thought I was helping the OP, his stuck profile issue is nothing to do with plusnet's long PPP timeouts, its to do with plusnet's slow profile updates.