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Author Topic: How long does DLM decide to change settings?  (Read 19519 times)

NewtronStar

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2013, 08:48:06 PM »

Not just the pandemonium of 'Routing & Records', but the very real issue of 'Where do we draw the line ??'. As some of us are aware, Mr BE resides on the very outskirts of his serving Exchange, and his immediate neighbours are fed via another closer Exchange. You can imagine the flood of requests that would follow, should we 'move' BE to the other Exchange ??

The cabinets are available in a variety of sizes, and installation requires the cabinet to be supplied with mains power, as well as ducting to link it to the old cabinet and of course ducting to carry the fibre back to the telephone exchange. In some areas the fibre from a cabinet does not go back to the existing exchange, but a neighbouring exchange. This does not affect the speeds possible, since fibre can run for many kilometres without the signal being affected.

« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 08:57:24 PM by NewtronStar »
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Black Sheep

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2013, 08:54:06 PM »

The issue is not with the 'Fibre side', it is with the D-side cabling. :)
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NewtronStar

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2013, 09:03:51 PM »

The issue is not with the 'Fibre side', it is with the D-side cabling. :)

the D-side you meen the smaller green Cab (copper wire to home) next to the larger FTTC cab ?
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Black Sheep

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2013, 09:12:53 PM »

Yes. The route from the original Cabinet to the home, is pre-determined and routed over decades old (I know, I know) cables.

So, you could have a situation where Customer A is fed via a telegraph pole (DP) that is over 1.5Km from the original Cabinet. However, Customer B (who lives next door to A), is 'fed' from a completely different DP, that is in turn 'fed' from a completely different Cabinet, that is only 100mtrs away !!
Outcome: Cust A struggles to get a decent VDSL speed, Cust B gets the full 40/80Meg speeds.

HTH.  :)
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NewtronStar

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2013, 09:40:34 PM »

Yes. The route from the original Cabinet to the home, is pre-determined and routed over decades old (I know, I know) cables.

So, you could have a situation where Customer A is fed via a telegraph pole (DP) that is over 1.5Km from the original Cabinet. However, Customer B (who lives next door to A), is 'fed' from a completely different DP, that is in turn 'fed' from a completely different Cabinet, that is only 100mtrs away !!
Outcome: Cust A struggles to get a decent VDSL speed, Cust B gets the full 40/80Meg speeds.

HTH.  :)

BlackSheep your post makes the D-side issue very understandable (layman's Terms)
Thankyou  ;)
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Black Sheep

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2013, 09:45:15 PM »

You are too kind, sir. Thanks.  :blush: ;D
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2013, 10:18:54 PM »

Not just the pandemonium of 'Routing & Records', but the very real issue of 'Where do we draw the line ??'. As some of us are aware, Mr BE resides on the very outskirts of his serving Exchange, and his immediate neighbours are fed via another closer Exchange. You can imagine the flood of requests that would follow, should we 'move' BE to the other Exchange ??

Nay, nay & thrice nay.

The other exchange may be closer but the closest fibre cab in that direction is more than 2 km from my home!!

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NewtronStar

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2013, 10:29:25 PM »

Not just the pandemonium of 'Routing & Records', but the very real issue of 'Where do we draw the line ??'. As some of us are aware, Mr BE resides on the very outskirts of his serving Exchange, and his immediate neighbours are fed via another closer Exchange. You can imagine the flood of requests that would follow, should we 'move' BE to the other Exchange ??

Nay, nay & thrice nay.

The other exchange may be closer but the closest fibre cab in that direction is more than 2 km from my home!!

eek BE 2 KM that would give you a Max of 11Mbps from the D-side  ;)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 10:31:53 PM by NewtronStar »
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Chrysalis

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2013, 02:40:37 AM »

Not just the pandemonium of 'Routing & Records', but the very real issue of 'Where do we draw the line ??'. As some of us are aware, Mr BE resides on the very outskirts of his serving Exchange, and his immediate neighbours are fed via another closer Exchange. You can imagine the flood of requests that would follow, should we 'move' BE to the other Exchange ??





I see both sides of the argument.

BT are basically adopting a hard policy of we wont touch whats in place unless there is a clear fault that falls below our tight failure policies.  This policy will likely be in place for cost control, whilst it may have trivial cost to fix some issues it may be somethign that quickly explodes when including more diffilcult cases and especially if applied to large amounts of people.

However we then have the fit for purpose, consumer rights etc.  As well as common sense.  If BT eg. have half a street served by a close cabinet/exchange with great service and the other half on the outskirts of something 10 miles away, then its basic common sense to reorute the bad half side of the street even without the customers requesting it, just get it done and write off the cost.  In my business not all my customers are treated exactly equally but it I had one customer very significantly worse off than another and he queried it, I would rectify the situation, even if at my own cost, it isnt right otherwise.  Its pretty crazy eg. I have a close cabinet across the road from me which shares the same ducts as my pole yet BT didnt optimise the D side when rolling out FTTC.  Even more baffling is BT spent the time and expense giving me a dedicated drop cable, which gave me a ton of extra attainable sync speed, only to then undo the work on the order of the area manager (apparently engineer did it without permission), reason? BT policy, nothing else.   BT basically spent money to apply policy (as it cost them money to undo the work).

Of course even with this policy in place people get inconsistent experiences, occasionally engineers go out of the way to fix things, if its someone important then they get better treatment, eg. a managing director of an isp who had press coverage managed to get a line reroute on top of a pair swap to get rid of his crosstalk.  His engineer also swapped out his junction box on top of that.  When people read/hear of these reports the will clearly want the same for themselves.

Then I read black sheep searched out a good pair for himself ;) on his own line and think thats nice, do the same for everyone else :) but I know thats not his fault he doesnt decide company policy, and after seeing an engineer who tried to help me get a bollocking from the area manager I know they dont have a free reign.
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Black Sheep

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2013, 07:11:11 AM »

Not just the pandemonium of 'Routing & Records', but the very real issue of 'Where do we draw the line ??'. As some of us are aware, Mr BE resides on the very outskirts of his serving Exchange, and his immediate neighbours are fed via another closer Exchange. You can imagine the flood of requests that would follow, should we 'move' BE to the other Exchange ??

Nay, nay & thrice nay.

The other exchange may be closer but the closest fibre cab in that direction is more than 2 km from my home!!

 ;) Yes, I'm aware of this BE. I was just trying to present an analogy.  ;D ;D
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Black Sheep

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2013, 07:18:25 AM »

Ha ha, Chrysallis. The 'Good Pair' was actually a spare already going to my BT66 (the previous occupier worked from home as an insurance assessor, and had 3 lines), and as such, there has been no line plant rearrangement, only a very simple robotic routing update to perform.

The 'Half a street' analogy wouldn't be an issue, if you weren't having to apply a further 'multiplier' of hundreds of thousands of premises. We have to look at the bigger picture when imposing rules and regs, and you're quite right, we don't have free reign for this very reason. :)
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ColinS

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2013, 12:53:50 PM »

You can imagine ... should we 'move' BE to the other Exchange ??

:hmm: I wonder what the effect might be if he could ask for an out-of-area number on that other exchange? :o :D

Strike that it's even further away.  Oh no, missus!  :lol:
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 12:56:18 PM by ColinS »
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DeadMan

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2013, 05:35:14 PM »

Interesting stuff guys. Engineer booked for tomorrow morning. We shall see. Right I am off to search for cabinet 14 ;)

EDIT: Found it! It's 300 meters down the road to the left not the closer cab unfortunately. It's a half sized cab with a full sized FTTC cab on the other side of the road (Not sure how that works). I plan on going along that stretch with my radio and see if there is any obvious noise but I doubt I will find anything useful.

Oh and I was wrong about the Chinese that is the next building along. There is a store that is uninhabited between (not sure what it was because I have been here over 20 years and it was always shuttered). Also premises above it. Knowing my area (Catford) perhaps it's full of spectrum polluting gear used to grow marijuana. ;)

What speed should I be expecting at 300 meters btw?

EDIT2: from Googling that it seems it could be anything between 30-76mbsp hmm.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 06:03:20 PM by DeadMan »
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NewtronStar

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2013, 09:37:11 PM »


What speed should I be expecting at 300 meters btw?

EDIT2: from Googling that it seems it could be anything between 30-76mbsp hmm.

at least 45Mbps @ 300 meters from Cab, and Just one other thing Rein comes in two flavours External and Internal, find and cure Internal first (Home) only Openreach can  cure External Rein  ;) you can look very suspect to authorities with a handheld scanner while traceing your D-side ;D

and it may help to use the DSL checker https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/ and compare
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 09:51:01 PM by NewtronStar »
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DeadMan

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Re: How long does DLM decide to change settings?
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2013, 04:13:26 AM »

Well I was syncing around 70/20 before DLM threw a hissy fit. It's knocked me down to 64/16 (real speeds are 57/15) at the moment and that may be what I have to live with on interleave. But it's worth a try to get faster if I can ;)

EDIT: Engineer just visited. Said he can't do anything but change the modem (lol). Did not understand any of the info I threw at him about FEC errors etc. All he said he can do is reset the DLM (after I asked him to) and he had never done that either. In fact he wasn't very knowledgeable at all (the terms monkey and organ grinder come to mind).

Now what?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 08:44:21 AM by DeadMan »
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