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[Basil]

I posted a thank you on the forum the other day after using info here to rewire my extension socket spur from the ADSL "master socket". Everything worked fine for a long time, then more line drops. My master socket is up in the loft, for some unknown reason. We have BT line in to house, across loft space to rafter mounted master ADSL socket. 3 normal phone extensions spur off the master. A "tail" of cable with an ADSL plug on it is plugged into the computer socket on the master, and is then joined by grease filled BT crimps (Scotch Lock like, but nicer ) to a cable that runs to my den in an upstairs room. Two pairs of this wire to my den are used, one pair for the ADSL, which is a separate single socket, the other pair for the normal phone socket. This is all original equipment BT, I was heare when they put the ADSL in. The second bout of drops and very slow syncs were due to the wires going into the single ADSL socket in my den. I took my laptop and Netgear 384 router to the master socket and saw about 17 or 18 DB noise margin on RouterStats. At my single socket, in my den, I now see about 12 dB noise margin. Can I improve this if the master socket is moved to my den, and then two cables run to the normal phones in two other rooms?  Is it worth using CAT5 cabling? Thanks. Fabulous site, have learnt a lot.

[burakkucat]

Hello Basil,

Your second post, I see. I must have missed your first one. 

My understanding of your current situation is that the incoming service pair terminates on a standard NTE5/A. In place of the normal lower-front face-plate, you have an NTE2000 centralised filter fitted. (An ADSL V1.0 faceplate.) From the telephony side of that centralised filter, you have three telephone sockets connected. I can follow that the unfiltered xDSL signal is taken to your den from the RJ45 socket but what is not clear is from where the telephony signal is obtained to send it down a second pair in the same cable. 

Is there any possibility that you could take a series of photographs and make them available for viewing, please? That would be the simplest way for us to understand your current wiring configuration. 

[Basil]

The ADSL V1.0 faceplate is where the flying lead is plugged in to the RG45 socket. This flying lead (2 wires of a multi core standard telephony cable) goes back INSIDE the NTE5/A box where two other wires in the same cable are pushed with the blade type tool into two of the three telephony V like terminals. So the two ADSL ones are separated from the multi core cable to go to the RG45 jack on the face of the box.  So at my den end, this multi core cable has two wires carrying ADSL, and two telephony. The 4 wires split again and go to two separate boxes, an RG45 one for the router and a normal single socket phone one. So of the five or whatever wires in the cable to my den, two go to the ADSL RG45 socket box, and two go to the phone socket box. And at the NTE5/A end two of the wires go as a flying lead to the RG45 jack, and the other two wires used go to the outer 2 V terminals INSIDE the NTE5/A.

It's like an oven up there after this day of sunshine, if it's still unclear I can take photos in the morning, no problem. Thanks!


EDIT:

I see the "V terminals" are correctly called IDC terminals I am far more at home with race cars, than phone wiring

[burakkucat]

I now understand the wiring.

It is not the best configuration but it works.    I assume it was wired in that fashion because the ADSL V1.0 centralised filter is an NTE2000 which does not provide separate IDCs for the unfiltered pair -- unlike the later NTE2005 which has six IDCs, labelled 2345AB. (The first numbered four being the telephony side and the lettered pair being the unfiltered pair.)

When you performed the throughput speed test, with your laptop computer and modem/router temporarily located in the roof space, did you remove the NTE2000 from the NTE5/A and connect via a 'dangly' microfilter which was plugged into the 'test' socket of the NTE5/A? Or did you unplug the 'flying lead' and plug the modem/router into the RJ45 socket of the NTE2000?

There are a few possible wiring updates that you could make -- none of which involve moving the NTE5/A, as that would need the attention of an Openreach engineer and be subject to TRCs. (Time Related Charges.)

[Basil]

I now understand the wiring.

It is not the best configuration but it works.    I assume it was wired in that fashion because the ADSL V1.0 centralised filter is an NTE2000 which does not provide separate IDCs for the unfiltered pair -- unlike the later NTE2005 which has six IDCs, labelled 2345AB. (The first numbered four being the telephony side and the lettered pair being the unfiltered pair.)

When you performed the throughput speed test, with your laptop computer and modem/router temporarily located in the roof space, did you remove the NTE2000 from the NTE5/A and connect via a 'dangly' microfilter which was plugged into the 'test' socket of the NTE5/A? Or did you unplug the 'flying lead' and plug the modem/router into the RJ45 socket of the NTE2000?

There are a few possible wiring updates that you could make -- none of which involve moving the NTE5/A, as that would need the attention of an Openreach engineer and be subject to TRCs. (Time Related Charges.)

I connected to the fascia plate socket, as I didn't have a suitable lead or adaptor to go direct to the test point socket. All was good for some time after I discovered a poor connection in the den, inside the RJ45 socket box. But circa 10:15 PM tonight the noise rose. Here are screenshots reduced in size by going monochrome, of after the remade connection, at circa 10:15 PM, and currently. The connection has never dropped altogether, which is almost unique, but things seem to be deteriorating again. Any improvement advice very welcome. I have even monitored the mains voltage to see if being in the sticks near several chicken farms with vast, timed power demands, was the culprit. But despite sagging occasionally to 205 volts, it doesn't tally with the noise level. That's not to say the huge 3 phase blowers the farms run to cool the sheds isn't something to do with it....Thank!

[guest]

205V is below the minimum permitted supply voltage and you should contact your electricity supplier.

Maximum/minimum permitted single-phase mains voltage is 216-253V (ie 230V -6%/+10%) and they are legally obliged to supply mains power between those limits. If they do not supply power within those limits then they must pay compensation on a daily basis for each voltage excursion beyond those limits.

Only reason I know about this is because I was in the situation where mains voltage would regularly (several times per day) exceed 260V and hence I got paid daily compensation for 9 weeks while they undertook rebalancing work on that phase. The compensation was around £100/month (£3/day I think) IIRC so it paid for the electricity usage and then some.

I'm not saying that this is related to your ADSL problem but I'd advise you to get it fixed all the same.

[burakkucat]

Sorry for the delay . . . I had completely forgotten about this thread. 

To have your mains supply dropping to 205V is certainly some sag! I see rizla has covered the limits, etc, so all I'll do is suggest you contact your electricity supply company, make a complaint and request that they monitor, then correct the situation.

As for the best situation with regards to the location of your NTE5/A . . .

• If you are prepared to pay the Openreach TRCs, I would suggest that the NTE5/A be relocated to your den by installing a new length of CW1308 cable between there and the end of the drop-cable in the roof-space. Once relocated, you would plug your modem/router in directly to the RJ45 socket and run a new length of cable from the ADSL V1.0 centralised filter IDCs to the other two telephone sockets in turn, via a daisy-chain.
• If you decide not to have the NTE5/A moved, I would recommend that the current wiring be modified by installing a new length of Cat 5e cable from the RJ45 socket of the ADSL V1.0 centralised filter to an RJ11 (or RJ45) socket in your den. Remove one of the two (telephony) extension cables that run from the roof-space so that the filtered feed goes first just to one of the other two telephone sockets. Now connect the second telephone extension socket and finally the den telephone extension socket by daisy-chaining.

Either of those two options should be better than your current wiring configuration.

With the current configuration, I do not like putting a filtered telephony pair into the same cable as the unfiltered modem/router supply pair nor do I like the star wiring of the other two telephone extensions.

Whether such a change will make a noticeable difference to your Internet connection and be worth the effort -- who knows? 

[Basil]

burakkucat: Thanks for the reply! I have bought some RJ-11 plugs and have the right crimp tool, so will do an experiment by taking a direct feed using CAT-5 from the master socket to the router, and see if the signal improves as it did when I took the laptop and router to the master socket. If it does I will get BT to sort it out properly. May I just ask if the graphs of the signal to noise ratio are normal, or do they show an issue? Would BT take any notice of them?

Cheers, have a good weekend, what's left of it

[burakkucat]

  Hmm . . . your RouterStats graphs do show some rather violent swings and at a quick glance do not look too good. 

However to be able to make some sort of reliable statement, we would really need to see at least two days worth of graphed data.

Graphed data is regularly provided to ISPs / CPs as evidence of poorly performing or faulty lines and, if an Openreach engineering visit results, will often aid the technician in the hunt for the fault.

Do you obtain both your telephone and Internet services direct from Beattie Retail or are you with (an) other supplier(s)?

[Basil]

Telephone line is BT, my ISP has been Zen Internet for the last 12 or more years. I do use the internet a lot for business and it is incredibly annoying when that important mail just *has* to go, or you are about to bid on the bargain of the month on Ebay, and the line drops and dreaded router light is flashing Thanks.