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Author Topic: Crosstalk, speed estimates, BT Vision etc.  (Read 2276 times)

Bald_Eagle1

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Crosstalk, speed estimates, BT Vision etc.
« on: June 12, 2013, 03:55:38 PM »

Another engineer (Simon) visited today to look into my recently lowered speed estimates & lowered sync speeds.

He carried out the usual tests & also contacted the Fibre Centre to have DLM reset (just in case anything was 'stuck').
We saw a very slight increase in sync speeds, possibly due to the reset being carried out around noon rather than when DLM usually takes action during the early hours.


He was a very friendly & chatty engineer who seemed genuinely interested in what has been happening to my connection & even mentioned other reduced connection speed estimates and sync speeds for users living a few hundred metres closer to the cabinet.

Amongst other matters, we had quite a chat about reduced speed estimates & crosstalk generally.

He confirmed that the DSLAM in my cabinet is now almost at full capacity & was sure the reduced speeds we are now seeing are simply down to increased crosstalk.

He looked at my graphs & the modem's GUI, saying that although he couldn't run a specific crosstalk test, his tests confirmed that physically my connection is still in pretty good order & that the fairly gradual deterioration noticed in my stats is almost certainly the result of increased crosstalk.



He mentioned he has been recently trained in setting up BT Vision connections as there has been & is expected to continue a large increase in users wishing to use those services.

He was of the opinion that the general & quite recent reduction of speed estimates (& thus actual sync speeds in some cases) is a consequence of the increased take up of BT Vision/FTTC i.e. increased crosstalk and/or that BT realise there will undoubtedly be some sort of general decline in VDSL2 broadband performance as time goes on & that speed estimates are now more realistically taking that into account.

When DLM was reset, my resulting sync speeds were/are 22333 Kbps downstream & 4968 Kbps upstream.
Interestingly, my connection has been running on fastpath for both DS & US recently (since a few days before ending up with the lowest speeds I have seen in the last 12 months).
On resetting DLM, Interleaving was applied at the low depths of 11 for DS & 6 for US.

Apparently, other users a few hundred metres closer to the cabinet are now only seeing around 25000 Kbps DS sync and 25 Mbps estimated speed.

My estimated speeds are currently Up to 23.3 Mbps DS & Up to 5.4 Mbps US, so although somewhat disappointed, I'm probably not doing too badly at the moment.

For interest, the engineer did mention that (at least locally) engineers are currently only issued with ECI modems, either as replacement for suspected 'faulty' modems or for new installations, despite a number of engineers pointing out that they do actually see a measurable performance hit when connecting an ECI modem to a Huawei DSLAM, especially for longer length connections.

We did discuss REIN during the visit, but I was advised (for my own sanity) to not go down the route of investigating it as it would drive me insane.
It is very difficult to prove 'permanent' REIN issues & even when proven, even more difficult to get those responsible for it to take any sort of avoidance action.

He did recommend me to raise a 'fault' though if I do start to see impulsive type increases in error counts/lowered SNR/SNRM etc.
I haven't seen any such impuslive problems on my connection, so I believe I will just have to accept the lower speed but very stable connection until either Vectoring helps or full FTTP or FTTPoD becomes affordable/possible.

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ColinS

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Re: Crosstalk, speed estimates, BT Vision etc.
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 05:29:10 PM »

Well I'm pleased at least that your profile has been reset to allow your line a chance to find its own level again.  Every little bit helps, as the adverts say.  ;) :)

My own recent experience with error-rates has been interesting.  As far as DLM control is concerned, it seems, at least, as if max-rate banding because of apparent instability (too many resyncs) is harder to shrug off than even quite poor performance (too many errors), as DLM seems to be able to tweak this quite well, and in fact has restored my connection to 80,000 as the error-rate has died back (or BTOR have left the joint-box :P).

I'm also interested to hear what was said about the BT Vision thing.  If he meant BT Vision = FTTC, and therefore more of the latter, then I can understand the connection.  However, what little I know about it suggests that a) they seem just to be using some sort of bandwidth reservation technique, and b) they're not even using the ability to use the availability in VDSL of two PTM streams with differing latency requirements.  Quite a crude approach really.  I suppose though that the continuous streaming aspect of VOD might arguably increase FEXT disproportionately compared with the normal data stream, where higher level protocols are likely to impose flow-control.
I suggest there ought to have been some sort of Offcom deal done here - more IPTV, but only if accompanied by Vectoring.  But then I probably woke up at that point.

On the modem thing, perhaps it's actually a good thing then that PCP-only installations have arrived, because then the choice of modems will become an ISP/EU debate, as long as they are SIN498 compliant.

Anyway, glad there has been some movement, and I hope that DLM & the modem will now look at whatever your real error-rates are and tweak the line parameters accordingly.  You never know, it might even improve things for you.  I do hope so anyway.  ;D

Something I read elsewhere may be interesting for you to monitor:
Quote
INP and Delay in the profile are the input requirements, as they are what DLM sets to say what level of interleaving/FEC is required
The resultant R, D, I and N parameters are then the values that the modem selects to try to meet these requirements
Also
Quote
The modem can choose whether to offset speed against latency. Generally, the modem can attain the same level of protection by both increasing the FEC overhead size (so decreasing speed) and decreasing the interleaving size (and decreasing delay), or vice-versa.
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burakkucat

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Re: Crosstalk, speed estimates, BT Vision etc.
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 05:51:27 PM »

Quote
. . . FTTPoD becomes affordable/possible.

Are Plusnet now 'geared up' and able to provide you with a quote? If so, it may prove to be interesting reading . . . even if you ultimately decline the offer.  ::)
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Crosstalk, speed estimates, BT Vision etc.
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 06:26:31 PM »

Are Plusnet now 'geared up' and able to provide you with a quote? If so, it may prove to be interesting reading . . . even if you ultimately decline the offer.  ::)

I have not seen any mention of it via Plusnet or its community forum & as I live quite a distance from the cabinet (presumably the closest point that fibre currently reaches) I just know it will be prohibitively expensive.

I may ask the question though.

Also, as I am at the very edge of the area served by my exchange (next door in one direction being served by a different exchange) and living in a quite sparesely populated area, I can't imagine BT/Plusnet taking a commercial gamble that other nearby users would use the service in order to offset initial installation costs.

In time (likely to be years from now), once huge profits are being made from FTTP services, BT may just decide to provide areas such as mine with FTTP, although I do strongly suspect that as with C&W, NTL, Virgin cable services it simply wouldn't be commercially viable.

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