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[biohead]

I know some BT engineer scour these boards, so for those that do I'd like to ask a few questions.

Our entire area got an FTTC rollout around the middle of 2012. I say entire area, but it seems there are a few single cabs which never got upgraded - which is where my question comes in.

My partners dad (who's retired) is really looking forward to being able to get Fibre - especially after his ISP says its coming soon and all the other usual marketing blurb. Except, I don't think he will be able to. All the work in the area started February last year, with all the holes being dug, cabs being laid etc etc. And the first cabs started coming online around May. But the cabinet he's connected to never got it's fibre partner. As the entire area got done at once, I see no reason why BTOpenreach would specifically miss this out, and come back at a later point to do it alone? I suspect that the database has marked everyone connected to the exchange as being able to get FTTC, and neglected to omit those who's cabinets haven't been upgraded.

Unfortunately, recently he's been talking about it more and more - I'm just trying to get a bit of information for him as I can't see it happening for him. As far as I know, my cabinet on the other end of the exchange was one of the last to be enabled, and that was early July 2012.

So my question is this, are there any engineers out there which are able to provide a bit more information on this? Either specifics or just a generalisation? The exchange in question is MYSEM, and the cabinet is #30.

And completely unrelated, but another question I have is that after the rollout was complete, not long after one of the fibre cabinets elsewhere was removed and never replaced. What would cause such a removal? Poor quality lines or something else?

[waltergmw]

Hi Biohead,

I'm only a close follower of the excellent BT Openreach wizards.

However I do have a December 2011 postcode listing which includes PCP 30 as being enabled.
Something might have changed or your partner's dad might be routed off a different cabinet.
To test that put his phone number into :-

http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome

and report back what it says.
If you can give us a postcode we might glean a little more for you too.
PM me if you want.

Here's a screen print extract.

Kind regards,
Walter

[biohead]

Hi Walter, thanks for finding that bit out - seems off how it's been completely missed in that case.

The postcode is WF9 1DA - which is in that snippet of yours. Entering the phone number into the database also returns the same cabinet number too, so I feel it's safe to say that's the one he's connected to.

[Black Sheep]

I'm an OR engineer, but am as much in the dark as yourself, as to why individual PCP's do not get enabled at the same time as others ??

At first, when I came across this situation, (through being asked by an EU), I put it down to being one of a few things.
Close distance to the Exchange thus getting good copper bandwidths anyway. Not enough interest on the 'BT Infinity' website. Not enough ADSL activated lines off the existing PCP. The community served by the existing PCP consisting of an older demo-graph. I wondered if it was any of these reasons as to why the 'planners' hadn't been approached to install a Fibre PCP ??

However, there is an area that I work on daily that has a damned great Industrial Estate fed from it, along with other residential properties varying from council dwellings, to 6-figure sum premises. The feed PCP for all of them is still copper-only, and this area went 'Fibre' almost 18 months ago !!!!!! The businesses are always asking me when they can get Fibre, when working in side their premises. I don't have an answer for them.

TBH, I wouldn't know who to ask about it anyway, it's way too far up the food chain for lil ol' me. Might be better if the got Walter and the B4RN crew in to sort it out ??   

[c6em]

individual users on Industrial sites and mega houses may already have a good service by way of having bought a leased line/bonded whatever commercial grade service from BT.
These will be a good money earners for BT.
If they enable the cabinet for FTTC then these people would simply dump the expensive bespoke commercial service and merely grab the much cheaper FTTC service - and most probably not from BT but from another ISP!
This would represent a severe loss of revenue from that cabinet to BT
Solution - do not convert/delay this particular cabinet to fibre......................and the rest of the users on the cabinet can go swivel.


Other less convoluted reasons include mega logistical problems with the install
These might include lots of inacessible & blocked ducts - particularly if they are now on private property requiring wayleave discussions.
(I know one householder planted hedge directly on top of the BT duct route - So if the ducts are now found to be blocked.....cue major argument over who pays for the excavation work & restoration)
Problems over sourcing a nearby/suitable power supply for the fibre unit.
Highways authority/planning issues (position of cabinet affects line of sight exiting a side road for example).

[les-70]

  Sounds like my case, the whole town has been enabled for while but not the two cabinets in the centre serving not just many flats and houses but also shops and businesses.  It was probably the easiest place to install a cabinet as fibre has been in the duct for the businesses for nearly 3 years.

 I do have dates though??? but after moving forwards 3 months at a time for 18 months, as it does!, it recently moved to March next year, perhaps it will move a year a time from now on!!!!!  I find it quite annoying especially as all the other cabinets are in place, even ones 500m form the exchange and those in areas with very few properties.  I think BT is using unfair means  to get money from the business for expensive private connections.  The openreach engineers you see in the streets "just can't understand why the central cabinets are not enabled".

[biohead]

In this particular case, this cabinet is one of the furthest from the exchange I'd say - so I guess the chances of a collapsed duct along that route increase as it gets longer. There are no businesses in the vicinity - its purely residential.

Les - this is the same case with the dates. It was originally June 2012, then it got pushed back 3 months at a time until recently that changed to March 2014.

[c6em]

I did "hear" of some costings along the lines of the standard install cost of a fibre cab' was around £30K however if the cab' was out on its own on the edge of the exchange area with blocked ducts and general aggro' en-route then the costs started to approach £100K.  That's a lot of dosh - and if at the end you have a poxy PCP cabinet with only a handful of ADSL enabled lines - of which perhaps only 50% will swap to FTTC the capital install cost per actived FTTC line starts to look like a non starter quite quickly.

If the remedial work included diggin' up roads that escalates the costs/time even more as utiltities are no longer allowed to simply get out the stufff/block off the road and get excavating. They have to sort it out out with the council to coordinate works and schedule them - and they get big fines if they over-run.  In some silly cases it cheaper to abandon the job part way put the road back and re-schedule for much later to dig it all up again rather than pay the fine for a time over-run.
This was because we the general public complained endlessly about one utility digging up the road one day and the other one coming along the next day and digging up the same stretch.

I honestly don't know why BT are making it so difficult for themselves with these dates.  I appreciate it like being asked endlessly when you will finish the job, you've no idea, the job is going bad, someone is pestering you for finish time so you just get fed up and say March 2013 off the top of your head just to get rid of them. 
If I was BT I'd remove ALL the dates and simply say that the FTTC upgrade work will be done in stages across exchanges and and when your particular cabinet is ready for service whether that be 2013,2014,or 2015 etc then you will be sent a communication to that effect.

[les-70]

  I can understand some locations being difficult or expensive but the lack of and/or delay of FTTC for town centers and industrial estate areas seems widely reported along with odd MP's intervening in some areas.  It does seem like a good business model but it is hardly fair when you have a monopoly.

[Black Sheep]

Les, I think you'll find we don't have a monopoly anymore. Hence stand alone projects like B4RN, and other sites where the community, the government and OR come together to finance the installation of FTTC.

Folk can't have it all ways. When OFCOM split us up to be 'equivalent' to all ISP's, it was seen as the way forward by way of competetive pricing structures for the EU's. Now when OR introduce FTTC, certain quarters don't like it.

As you say, it's a business model, we are a shareholding company, end of. That's how it is in the world of financing.

[les-70]

   Black Sheep,  I take your point but BT/OR does have an effective monopoly in many areas such as where I live.  I would like OFCOM  to ensure that FTTC is only restricted by BT/OR on real cost grounds - you can't run BT at a loss.  In town centres and business areas where, in itself,  FTTC would be cost effective, I think OFCOM along with local authorities should ensure it proceeds in a timely way.  In the end all would benefit if it helps businesses and shops and they don't close.

   More positively I notice from other forums that the sudden appearance of the  31st March 2014 date is a recent BT innovation and may just mean not by March 31st  or possibly not by June 31st.  I am just hoping the town centre here does get done in the not too distant future.