Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Fault possibly returning?  (Read 4816 times)

Ixel

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1090
Fault possibly returning?
« on: November 23, 2012, 10:39:14 AM »

Hi,
Just a quick question. Not long ago I had a 'battery contact' fault which apparently reduced my attainable rates but didn't completely disrupt my connection. After the fault was mostly resolved (engineer saying he was unable to completely fix the line so that all the unwanted voltage was gone, leaving around 5v-12v apparently) my attainable rates on the ECI ended up being around 93,000Kbps down and around 21,000Kbps up. I've not re-synced yet, as I've noticed the attainable downstream speed doesn't move until you do and only the attainable upstream speed moves whilst synced, but this morning I've had a sudden speed drop from an attainable up of around 21,000Kbps up to almost 17,000Kbps. Is this right? I imagine I've lost some attainable down speed too but without re-syncing I won't know.

If a possible fault is returning with vengeance, what's the best way to find an indication (other than a quiet line test which I couldn't hear any unusual noise on)?
Logged

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 26213
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2012, 05:35:33 PM »

It is very difficult to say.  :-\

I have a suggestion that you may like to try. At the end of the 'day' of use of the Internet, power down the router and unplug the Ethernet cable that links it to the ECI modem. Now power down the ECI modem and unplug it from the xDSL line. When you next require Internet access, plug the ECI modem into the xDSL line and power it up. Once the LEDs have finished flashing and are lit appropriately, reconnect the router to it. Finally, power on the router and allow it to establish the PPPoE connection.

DSLAMs and MSANs, the world over, sometimes appreciate a number of hours without having a CPE connected to the remote end of the metallic path and thus have time to 'relax' -- proving to be to the EU's benefit, once the xDSL link is re-established.  :)
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

Ixel

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1090
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 06:48:32 PM »

It is very difficult to say.  :-\

I have a suggestion that you may like to try. At the end of the 'day' of use of the Internet, power down the router and unplug the Ethernet cable that links it to the ECI modem. Now power down the ECI modem and unplug it from the xDSL line. When you next require Internet access, plug the ECI modem into the xDSL line and power it up. Once the LEDs have finished flashing and are lit appropriately, reconnect the router to it. Finally, power on the router and allow it to establish the PPPoE connection.

DSLAMs and MSANs, the world over, sometimes appreciate a number of hours without having a CPE connected to the remote end of the metallic path and thus have time to 'relax' -- proving to be to the EU's benefit, once the xDSL link is re-established.  :)

I see, interesting. I might try that tonight about 1am-2am and then switch it back on in the morning about 7am. This is the lowest I've seen the attainable upload go, before the battery contact fault was known and fixed it used to be a constant 19,000Kbps~, never as low as what it is now :P. I'll update with results tomorrow, once I've changed my home server motherboard in the morning.
Logged

Black Sheep

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4941
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 07:03:06 PM »

If you've still got the battery contact fault, you will get errors and DLM will act accordingly. Just as I said on your original post.
Logged

Ixel

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1090
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2012, 07:09:17 PM »

If you've still got the battery contact fault, you will get errors and DLM will act accordingly. Just as I said on your original post.

I know, but DLM hasn't done anything to the connection in a positive or negative way. This is just a sudden loss of attainable speed, worse than before it was seen to by the recent engineer.
Logged

Black Sheep

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4941
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2012, 07:27:26 PM »

My point being, that we could keep going on and on with this thread !! There could be a million suggestions made, and continued breakdown of your stats. Truth is, if there is a network fault (as you are under the impression there is), then continued disruption to your circuit will occur, in some way, shape or form.

To an engineering mind, comparisons can only be drawn once you have a fully fault-free circuit.  :)

Logged

Ixel

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1090
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2012, 07:44:28 PM »

My point being, that we could keep going on and on with this thread !! There could be a million suggestions made, and continued breakdown of your stats. Truth is, if there is a network fault (as you are under the impression there is), then continued disruption to your circuit will occur, in some way, shape or form.

To an engineering mind, comparisons can only be drawn once you have a fully fault-free circuit.  :)

Hmm, ok. Fair do. I'll end this topic there and accept the fact that it's normal.
Logged

Black Sheep

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4941
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2012, 08:09:58 PM »

Ask your ISP to carry out a GEA circuit test. If there is a line fault still prevalent, then they should act accordingly. If there isn't a fault condition, then hints, tips, tweaking and comparisons can be made with conviction.

Until you know for sure, you could spend long hours trying to mask the fault condition ??.
Logged

Ixel

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1090
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2012, 08:23:42 PM »

Ask your ISP to carry out a GEA circuit test. If there is a line fault still prevalent, then they should act accordingly. If there isn't a fault condition, then hints, tips, tweaking and comparisons can be made with conviction.

Until you know for sure, you could spend long hours trying to mask the fault condition ??.

Hmm, I see. I wasn't sure if I would be either wasting their time or given I'm almost at the estimated upload speed for my line whether they would do a check anyway. I know I was unsuccessful in regards to getting the DLM profile reset when I recently spoke to them after the engineer did something to mostly fix my battery contact fault. On that topic they previously said given my line was achieving the estimated speed, even though it could do higher, they wouldn't arrange for a reset despite there being a fault, so you can probably understand why I'm reluctant to contact them any further unless I lose a much larger amount of speed. So, do you still think it's still worth me contacting them or would I just be wasting their time and my time? Them being BT Business, not BT Retail. Thanks so far for the help :), appreciated.
Logged

Black Sheep

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4941
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2012, 08:34:37 PM »

I can only advise on the back of your conversation with the engineer.

As an engineer, I read the statement that there is between 5-12v faulty battery contact on the line, to be what we call a 'tapping battery'. IE- the 'resistance to fault' is continually changing, thus allowing varying ammounts of voltage through.

If you mention the convo you had with the engineer to your ISP, then request a circuit test, I can't see why they wouldn't perform this simplest of requests ?? It's not a reset, just a simple copper line test. 
Logged

Ixel

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1090
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2012, 08:40:55 AM »

Well just an update to say that following a power off of the modem and hub since 1am and a power on at 8:30am the speed is worse than before. Starting from 21,000Kbps~ on the ECI for a couple of days, then sudden drop down to around 17,500Kbps~ before the power off/power on, now down to 16,300Kbps~. I'll give the helpdesk a call this morning and ask them if they can perform a line test based on the fact that I've lost a considerable amount of upload and I'm now officially below my estimate of 18Mbps upload. Attainable downstream hasn't gone down by much though, just from 93,000Kbps~ to 88,000Kbps~. Will update if there's anything important to mention such as a fault once again being found.
Logged

Ixel

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1090
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2012, 01:51:36 PM »

Just a final update to say that over the weekend I had swapped back to the HG612 expecting the attainable results to be similar, but low and behold they returned to what they originally were (around 94,000Kbps down and around 28,000Kbps up). I plugged in the ECI again and I still got the low results that I mentioned earlier on. From this I can only assume it's a problem with the ECI modem so there's no reason for me to call BT, and I'm glad I didn't as it would've been unnecessary. If I had the same results on the HG612 (lower speeds that is) then I would've gone ahead today.

I'll stick to the HG612 unless for some reason interleaving gets bumped up by DLM, but for now it has remained on fastpath. I'm surprised it has stayed on fastpath given my ES per day is currently averaging 400+ seconds downstream, though the CRC errors are around 600~ per day, so little more than 1 CRC error per ES. However I'm not convinced that DLM is actually working on my line properly, I feel I may have confused it somehow. It's kept me capped at 60 megabits on fastpath for a couple of weeks now, and I've had moments during that time where I've not resynced manually for days thinking DLM would increase or remove the cap like it usually did. Still, I'm happy with that, if being at 60 megabits cap means it'll keep me on fastpath then good :P.

Thanks for those who replied and offered advice/help.
Logged

Black Sheep

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4941
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2012, 01:50:31 PM »

Taken from our chief engineers quarterly publication.

"Each night, the DLM system uses the previous 24hrs of circuit performance data to ascertain whether the mean time between errors or excessive retrain thresholds have been breached on a line. If they have, DLM will place rate caps, interleaving or both, on the line to improve error rate, stability, or both, by the change of its line profile."

IF you have a line fault, as you are under the impression you have from the engineers comments, then you may end up on a never-ending merry-go-round. I can't see why you are avoiding a simple copper line-test by your ISP ??  ???
Logged

Ixel

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1090
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2012, 02:14:40 PM »

Taken from our chief engineers quarterly publication.

"Each night, the DLM system uses the previous 24hrs of circuit performance data to ascertain whether the mean time between errors or excessive retrain thresholds have been breached on a line. If they have, DLM will place rate caps, interleaving or both, on the line to improve error rate, stability, or both, by the change of its line profile."

IF you have a line fault, as you are under the impression you have from the engineers comments, then you may end up on a never-ending merry-go-round. I can't see why you are avoiding a simple copper line-test by your ISP ??  ???

Interesting, I see. It's good to know then that the cap is on my line for some other reason, other than me assuming that DLM had frozen on my line. It was very strange to see no interleaving, but as you've quoted, basically DLM doesn't always apply both, it can apply either a capped rate or interleaving.

Hmm, well the only reason was I didn't think it was necessary for me to ring and potentially waste time for both the operator and myself. As it was, shortly after the engineer left, I tried getting them to perform a reset on the DLM but after performing some tests (presumably the copper line test you mentioned) and getting me to perform a speed test on the BT Wholesale website, they refused stating I was getting the minimum estimated speed and that Openreach would just tell them the same thing if they made the request for me.

Given I'm currently getting the minimum estimated speed still then BT Business will probably just say that again, even though I know I can achieve more (but I can't exactly say or prove this as the modem is supposed to be locked down, so can only say what the engineer said when he used the JDSU)?

If I use the HG612 my attainable rates are around (currently) 93Mbps down and 28.5Mbps up. If I plug in the ECI the attainable rates were originally (after the fault was semi-resolved) around 93Mbps down and 21Mbps up, if I plug it in now though they appear to be around 88Mbps down and 16.5Mbps up. So although the HG612 attainable rates haven't gone down since the fault was semi-resolved, the ECI attainable rates have, so I can only assume it's a problem with the ECI modem. In the meantime I've put back on the HG612, though it's not ideally the choice to use as the cabinet hardware is ECI. I suppose I could buy another cheap ECI modem off eBay and check that.

I'm one who, where possible, doesn't like to waste time for either the company or myself. Though perhaps that's not a good thing and I should actually be more pushy on matters such as getting DLM reset so the cap is removed. I did have intentions on ringing BT Business again roughly a month after the engineer was last here if the same cap was still in place, allowing ample time for DLM to do something.

Well, I'll give them a call based on what you've said, but before I do just one last question if you don't mind :). Do you think I should get them to perform the copper line test with the HG612 modem connected or the ECI modem connected, or in your opinion will this make very little difference?

Thanks for all the help.
Logged

Black Sheep

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4941
Re: Fault possibly returning?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2012, 03:16:42 PM »

The official stance on VDSL modem,s from rigorous testing by our chief engineers department, is that they are interchangeable between vendors. I know individuals on here are conducting their own tests, and may say otherwise.

I would hedge my bets and possibly leave the correct vendors modem plugged in whilst tests are carried out. I implore you, please stop mentioning performing a DLM reset, especially when conversing with your ISP. They don't like to activate resets for some reason.

Your enquiry should only be around a 'Copper line test', instigated by the fact the previous engineer mentioned still having fault voltages present on your circuit. If the test comes back as clean, then there's obviously been some misunderstanding between your conversations with the engineer, and tweaking of the circuit via this forums advice, can continue unhindered. If a line fault is identified and subsequently cleared, then the chances are you wont have to carry out any additional tweaks anyway ??  :) 
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
 

anything