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[waltergmw]

Gentlefolk,

THose who follow Lindsey Annison at http://5tth.blogspot.co.uk/ will probably have seen this article this morning.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/oct/19/sky-trying-broadband-subscribers-patience?newsfeed=true

I can confirm some difficulties as described by one of our Ewhurst residents (with my emphasis):-

"I have been in touch with Sky Broadand and after 40 minutes they could not tell me if the fibre option was available so i rang them They say it will probably be 2/3 months before BT let them know it is on line or available to Sky customers as they want to sign up BT customers first "

I find this sort of disgraceful mud slinging quite reprehensible !

Has anybody discovered a good way to circumvent such nonsense for a Sky customer ?

Kind regards,
Walter

[Black Sheep]

Playing 'Devils advocate' for a minute, I think it is just good business tactics to flog your own product first, direct to the consumer, rather than use a 're-seller' like Sky's FTTC product.

That said, it has been known for people to 'enhance' the content when relating a tale. Has Lindsey added her own 'twist' to give the story a bigger 'wow' factor, or even the Sky operative ??

As we all know Walter, BT come under more scrutiny by Ofcom than all the other ISP's put together. If what is posted here was actually said in the phone conversation, then odds are it's legit and above board. Whether individuals like it or not, is another matter ?

[kitz]

As regards to the article in the Guardian I can confirm that I've come across this several times before, in fact I'm pretty sure I've mentioned more than a few times the Sky delay of enabling adsl.
 
In particular my daughter had a hard time,  Sky was ordered at the beginning of Dec, but it was February before they got their act together and before she eventually got broadband. Being a nethead she wasn't a happy bunny.   I've taken many of the calls and tbh the first line support was completely useless and they made all sorts of promises that never came to fruition. 
On one occasion I spoke to tech support, they tried to put the blame on BT,  & they sent out a BT engineer to sort out the problem, but BToR couldnt do anything because the problem wasn't on the OR side.  At one point I came back at them and said they should be able to sort it and asked for them to expedite the order with BT.  Time after time they blamed BT to my daughter, but It was only after I asked them for a BT expedite that they admitted that they couldn't... and then finally admitted the problem was within their own system.     

The following applies to their FMPF LLU only and from what I can gather is they put in a request for telephony to be enabled first.  Obviously BTw do their bit and move the line over to the Sky handover frame at the exchange.  Sky then use their own engineers* to enable the phone line* up to the Sky MSAN.   Once the telephone is enabled the engineer reports back, and for some reason it can seem to 'sit around' for about a week- 10days before they then place the order for adsl. Repeat the above process waiting for the sky engineer to visit the exchange for the adsl side of things. 


*I was told the sky engineer covers various exchanges and each exchange has its own nominated day of the week.  Therefore say if your order has finally got through the system on a Monday, and your nominated exchange day is Monday, then its not going to be until the next monday before the engineer will hook up the adsl.

My friends daughter fairly recently had the similar on FMPF and it took sky 6 weeks to enable the broadband.  Without doubt there is a big problem trying to get adsl on Skys FMP LLU in some areas :/


--------

"I have been in touch with Sky Broadand and after 40 minutes they could not tell me if the fibre option was available so i rang them They say it will probably be 2/3 months before BT let them know it is on line or available to Sky customers as they want to sign up BT customers first "

Hmmmmmm  surely Sky have access to the BTw database?
Im also pretty sure if the above was the case then OFCOM would come down on BT like a ton of bricks.  As you know BToR/BTw are the wholesalers and the service is available to Service Providers.   BT retail that supplies Infinity to the EU does not have any preferential treatment over and above any of the other SPs.

Try asking someone like azzaka to see if Zen would know and be able to get FTTC enabled on that particular line, then you may have a much better idea of the truth.

[burakkucat]

Sorry Walter but I am a little sceptical.

Is the situation just being used to bash The Evil Empire of Newgate Street? To be honest, I would more trust Beatie than Murdoch's morons. 

[roseway]

Are we misunderstanding what has been said here? I read Walter's message as saying that Sky's excuse is reprehensible, not that BT actually do what they were accused of.

[kitz]

As to the first part of the Guardian report, Ive seen this happen several times first hand, and heard of similar stories via 3rd parties.  In the 2 cases I was quite close to without doubt Sky was blaming BT, when in both cases it turned out to be delays in the Sky systems.

My parents went on to Sky DSL, but they went via the SMP process first and they had no problems.  In all the cases Ive heard of it is the MPF LLU that seems to cause the delay, so therefore the finger points at Sky despite them continually saying its BT to the EU?

The 2nd part of the report seems to be pointing back at BT, because yet again Sky are telling the EU its BT.  BT has a clear date by which jobs are meant to be complete and it should be 7 working days.   If so many cases were the fault of BT then Im sure that we would be hearing something more public coming direct from Sky who could rightly issue a complaint against BT, it does seem to reek of sky 1st line support keep coming out with the line 'its BTs fault'.  If it was BTs fault then sky would be able to expedite.  The fact that they cant/wont seems to me to indicate that its Skys own system where the process is falling down, why is it only sky that seems to be having such dreadful delays.  It smells much like of the early days of Talktalk, before they got their act together

I think Walter could perhaps try what I did with my daughter's line and ask for a BT expedite....  then see what they say.  Unfortunately if its MPF then they wont be able to do an expedite, but at least that should trigger the fact that they cant fob it off on BT. :/

[Black Sheep]

If that is the case, Eric ..... it certainly doesn't read like that me, or a couple of others posting above. 

I see what you're saying, as in the reference to 'mud-slinging', which in this context can only apply to SKY throwing it in BT's direction.
It's just with the bold lettering, and the inference of BT's unwilligness to give 'go live' dates of FTTC and the signing up of BT EU's first, (and good old Walt's hatred of the corporate giant that is BT), all lead the regular reader to the conclusion it's BT that Walt finds reprehensible

The written word can be misinterpreted so easily though. Hopefully, Walter will reply with confirmation that he either hates ...... a) BT or b) SKY .......... or c) both. 

[kitz]

Play nice everyone please and lets try keep it civil between ourselves

TBH I read Walters OP as neither blaming BT nor Sky, but instead it was the Guardian article in the later part that seemingly were putting the blame at Openreach.
Obviously the media doesnt have the insight as have many members of this forum, nor will the EU's.  If the person at Sky tells you its BT then of course they are going to think that.  The EU's wont know that its only Sky that the delay appears to be happening to, nor how long it takes Sky on average to enable adsl when compared to other SPs.

If Sky are indeed having problems on such a great scale that it is blaming on BT (as far as the EU is being told) then why arent sky beating down BTs door and complaining to OFCOM.  The Murdoch empire is easily big enough to stick up for themselves. Whilst there may be the odd instance where something has gone wrong and BT is to blame, I hardly think it is likely on such a grand scale as is being made out by Sky customer service.

----

As far as walters query, all I can do is re-iterate.
1) If there's a long delay in activation - ask for an expedite*.  If its not a BT problem then they wont be able to expedite it.
2) If Sky are claiming that it will be 2/3 months before BT let them know, then perhaps try seeing what another ISP such as Zen or Plusnet say.  This info could then be taken back to Sky if need be.

*Presuming its still called BT expedite?  Perhaps someone like BS or an ISP rep can confirm this.

[Black Sheep]

Play nice everyone please and lets try keep it civil between ourselves

I wasn't aware we weren't 'playing nicely' ? My reply to Eric is genuine and not in any way intended as malicious ?? I think this a great example of my previous comments, of how the written word can be mis-interpreted. 

[UncleUB]

[Black Sheep]

Regarding the other issue, kitz ........ i've never personally heard of this 'expedite' process you speak of ?? Once upon a millennium, when your local manager was just that, and not some faceless bod sat staring at statistics all day, then he could get involved and expedite a situation if possible. Fast forward to todays 'new and improved' management, and they wouldn't know where to begin ??

So, the long and short of it is I'm not sure how a case could be ushered along any quicker than it is ?? Sorry.

To rub it in, we (Employees) have a group called 'Actionline' who deal with any issues for us and our friends. They are really, really good and quick at cutting through the brown stuff and getting results. Thing is, the person in the OP is going with SKY, so even if she had a BT 'friend' it wouldn't have any benefit utilising 'Actionline'.

[kitz]

"BT expedite" used to be the term for the the fast processing of BT orders.  It could say be used if an EU wants adsl enabled the next day after placing an order, rather than the usual 5/7 days.    There is a normally an additional fee for this service, but it could also be used if BT botched up an order. 

Some ISPs could/would also use BT expedite if they themselves have messed up and to get the customer sorted the next working day rather than go through the 5/7 day process.
For eg Plusnet used the expedite process several times about 7?yrs ago when there was some mux-ups that occurred in the days when they used Tiscali LLU for some customers, and to get them back on IPStream with minimum downtime.


It now seems to be called simply Fast Track

[kitz]

Just found out whilst looking at something else.

1)

BTw do still call it expedite.   
Charges for customer initiated next day connection:-

adsl = £106.29
vdsl = £180.00

Theres also a repair expedite process.


----------

2)

Sky are only offering Sky FTTC at certain exchanges - Even if said exchange has FTTC available via BT, Plusnet & other ISPs, it doesnt follow that SKY will offer it.  Reading between the lines its actually down to whether Sky has upgraded THEIR equipment (SVBN) at the exchange to be able to connect to the  BT NGA/GEA Handover node.   

There appears to be quite a few exchanges where other ISPs can offer FTTC to a customer, yet Sky cant.  Therefore the statement "2-3 months before BT let them know" and "BT wants to sign up BT customers first" seems to be a blatant porkie pie

[silversurfer44]

Did someone mention pork pie? With HP Sauce of course.

[burakkucat]

Did someone mention pork pie? With HP Sauce of course.

I like to warm mine in a microwave oven, then make a hole in the pastry lid through which the HP Sauce is added!