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[snadge]

As part of Openreach's Network programme and our ongoing operations we have been trialling some network rearrangements, including the installation of Broadband Regenerators on copper lines providing ADSL. These Regenerators can be placed in or near a cabinet and are powered by new equipment in the Exchange. The ADSL signal is 'cleaned' and 'amplified'. Early indications from the technical trials are positive with some increases in ADSL speeds - although they do require additional network investment.

As part of its portfolio Openreach already offers a range of Network Rearrangements services which can be requested by CPs. Following commencement of the initial technical trials we wish to advise interested CPs that we would like to hear from any CPs who might wish to participate in a CP trial. The Broadband Regenerator may be an option in the future (subject to trial) available to all those who are involved in proposals connected with areas for intervention under BDUK County led rural broadband programme. Any proposals for Broadband Regenerators would need to be evaluated and costed on an individual case by case basis (including feasibility, survey, plan and build). These would then be charged back to the bidding CP on a per project basis.



http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefings/generalbriefings/generalbriefingsarticles/gen05712.do

[burakkucat]

   Hmm . . . I wonder if TalkTalk will be willing to trial it and, thus, give me the full 8 Mbps of my "up to 8 Mbps" service? 

[GigabitEthernet]

This sounds interesting. What I would like to know is, how much of a boost in speeds is it likely to give to a line syncing at 5Mbps for example?

[Bald_Eagle1]

This sounds interesting. What I would like to know is, how much of a boost in speeds is it likely to give to a line syncing at 5Mbps for example?

& if it also works for VDSL2 connections, how much closer I might be able to get my 33Mb connection to the magical 80Mb?
That's only "up to" the extra 47Mb that I'm missing out on at the moment 

[renluop]

Excuse what is probably a naif's query.

Will the effect be to reduce the attenuation or increase SNR, or a combination?

Are there applications outside broadband in which similar technology has been used? To what improvement?

FWIW Wikip article here

[I took the liberty of correcting your link - roseway]

[roseway]

The OR briefing article refers to the items as 'regenerators', which implies that they demodulate the signals to get a clean digital signal, then remodulate them.

[renluop]

No worry about the link. Did reply actually d/w my query?

[roseway]

I don't think there's a simple answer to the question you asked. The user's router will, I imagine, report a lower attenuation, because it's receiving a signal originating from a point which is closer than the exchange. But that signal will have lost speed as a result of the distance from the exchange to the regenerator.

I'm not explaining it very well because there's only limited information available at present.

[snadge]

I think Roseway;'s interpretation sounds about right, re-generating the signal from that point.

Take a 2km line (averaging 16-18Mb) - if it has a PCP at 1km , then regenerating from that point may be able supply a 1km speed (averaging 20-22Mb) - but if the same line has the PCP at 1.5km in towards the CPE then it may only generate a 1.5km speed (averaging 18-20Mb) - doesn't matter how short the link is after the re-generator it can only give the same speed it can receive ...or less... the same can be said for the reverse, if the PCP was 0.5km in from the exchange then the fastest speed would still be that of a 1.5km line because its 1.5km from the PCP to CPE.

those who's PCP is closer to half-way between them and the exchange stand the better chance of higher speed increase, those who live close to the PCP are likely to get less speed increase in comparison

something like that anyway

[sheddyian]

From an ignorant but curious point of view (ie, me) :

Suppose you have a line, say, 2km long, and there is a regenerating amplifier 1.5km+ down the line, ie it's much nearer the end user than the exchange.

Would that then cause the end user to see :

- a surprisingly low line attenuation (measured from user to nearby regeneration unit)
- a surprisingly poor synch speed (from exchange to regen. unit) given the expectations from the apparent low line attenuation

Ian

[snadge]

@ sheddyian - well its all just guestimation at this point because like someone (Roseway I believe) already explained there is no more information about it, but, it could be that a low attenuation would show and a synch speed lower than what you would normally achieve with such an Attenuation figure - this is because the link between DSLAM/MSAN to RG is 1.5km long and using ADSL2+ would yield something like 18-20Mb, when a 0.5km Attenuation such a 7db would normally achieve 24Mb


like I say this is just "in theory" and "guess-work"

[sheddyian]

like I say this is just "in theory" and "guess-work"

Agree.  It'll be interesting to see how it pans out. I was just idly wondering if, whilst potentially giving significant improvements in synch speed, it might further complicate estimations/predictions/expectations of line speed, or cause problems diagnosing faults. 

"my line has x attenuation, yet only synchs at y!!!"

"your line is x km long, therefore speed is estimated at y - sign up with wizzo broadband today!" etc etc.

Ian

[renluop]

My usual stats are snc ~8550; att 46.5; snm 4.5. Distance by road from exchange to PCP likely 1.3 miles, but could be 1.8 (2.1, 2.89 kms) and distance from PCP to house 0.4 miles (.64 kms).

I am assuming benefits toward the minimal end.

You clever ones what are your guesses?

[HPsauce]

I'd guess this is only going to be deployed in rural areas where outlying clusters of properties (hamlets) are near or even beyond the range of ADSL from the exchange.
If your line is much less than 3 miles long I can't see anyone being interested.

[Jonnyteg]

This idea while good is for people with speed goggles on this will cause higher latency.  Its also too late with fibre rollout and 4g soon pointless.