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Author Topic: Possible Interference?  (Read 21057 times)

Black Sheep

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2012, 11:30:53 AM »

Yes you would. As I said, interleaving depth is only masking the real issue ........ a faulty circuit.

That said, if it is REIN/RFI causing the problem, it tends to manifest itself purely as FEC's on our HHT. So, if you had your Inter Depth lowered to as low as 2 then you wouldn't get massive CRC's/ES's anyway, just plenty of FEC's. To reiterate, that's if it is REIN/RFI.

If you have the ID lowered and CRC's/ES's are prevalent, then the chances are you have a 'normal' circuit fault. Hope this makes sense ??
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roseway

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2012, 11:40:47 AM »

Quote
My DS interleaving depth is currently 64.

So is mine now, and I don't believe it to be a problem in itself, unless latency is a critical issue for you. In my case the ping response is still less than 30 ms, so it's no issue at all. I don't see any obvious reduction in speed due to the interleaving. But it's true that it may be obscuring an underlying problem.
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  Eric

GigabitEthernet

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2012, 01:25:07 PM »

That said, if it is REIN/RFI causing the problem, it tends to manifest itself purely as FEC's on our HHT. So, if you had your Inter Depth lowered to as low as 2 then you wouldn't get massive CRC's/ES's anyway, just plenty of FEC's. To reiterate, that's if it is REIN/RFI.

Hang on, with an interleaving depth of 2, surely I wouldn't get any FECs as interleaving would be disabled?
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Black Sheep

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2012, 01:46:45 PM »

Sure ?? I was under the impression that any integer other than '0', gave a level of Interleaving to the circuit ?
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roseway

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2012, 02:22:41 PM »

An interleaving depth of 1 equals fastpath. Anything over 1 is interleaved.
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  Eric

Black Sheep

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2012, 02:26:14 PM »

Whoops, Eric is indeed correct. My mistake.
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2012, 02:59:04 PM »

Okay, should I request the interleaving depth to be changed to 2 then?
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Black Sheep

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2012, 06:52:35 PM »

I would for monitoring purposes.
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snadge

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2012, 07:58:44 PM »

@ AR - can you request a ID of "2" ..?

 - are there any noticeable problems? , you could increase your Noise Margin which may help reduce error counts, but of course at cost of sync speed.

the lower the ID the more susceptible you are to errors on the line? in that respect a low ID on a noisy line would not be suggested...

has the noise increase (on QLN graph) just appeared? or has it been there for a while?  you could try turning off everything in your house at the wall except router and laptop, reboot the router and see if it persists, if so then its likely that the source of the noise is a neighbour or somewhere else down the line and will be hard to resolve.
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Aquiss - 900/110/16ms - TP-Link AR73

GigabitEthernet

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2012, 08:12:40 PM »

The problem really is that I was expecting more out of this line on ADSL2+, I think this must be related to that. I mean, I have got barely any increase out of ADSL2+, I was hoping for 8.5Mb+, but I can't get there at the moment!
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2012, 08:50:21 PM »

Here are the stats for tonight:

Code: [Select]
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 8000
Max:    Upstream rate = 1064 Kbps, Downstream rate = 8288 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 1077 Kbps, Downstream rate = 8015 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   ADSL2+
TPS-TC:                 ATM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.7             5.3
Attn(dB):        43.5            22.1
Pwr(dBm):        21.5            12.9
                        ADSL2 framing
                        Path 0
MSGc:           59              10
B:              124             24
M:              1               8
T:              2               6
R:              10              8
S:              0.4970          5.9007
L:              2173            282
D:              64              4
                        Counters
                        Path 0
SF:             646720          590252
SFErr:          34              20
RS:             84073419                2777658
RSCorr:         182427          232
RSUnCorr:       599             0

                        Path 0
HEC:            455             36
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    197493824               26496844
Data Cells:     43802502                1970893
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     25537           2998

ES:             23              14
SES:            0               0
UAS:            30              30
AS:             10447

                        Path 0
INP:            1.17            0.45
PER:            16.15           17.70
delay:          7.95            5.90
OR:             32.19           7.23

Bitswap:        6182            0

Total time = 2 hours 54 min 46 sec
FEC:            182427          232
CRC:            34              20
ES:             23              14
SES:            0               0
UAS:            30              30
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 46 sec
FEC:            18968           6
CRC:            4               0
ES:             1               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            25626           1
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 2 hours 54 min 46 sec
FEC:            182427          232
CRC:            34              20
ES:             23              14
SES:            0               0
UAS:            30              30
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
Since Link time = 2 hours 54 min 7 sec
FEC:            182427          232
CRC:            34              20
ES:             23              14
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0

A lot of FECs but the ES and CRCs aren't too bad.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 08:52:42 PM by arobertson545 »
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kitz

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2012, 10:17:46 PM »

Dont have time to type out a full explanation as I have a few family commitments this week...  but DMT (adsl) uses several different bearer channels which have different framing modes.  Payload frames can contain either the fast channel or interleaved channel or even both depending on how the SP configures it - for example its possible that they could route VOIP over fast channel and other non time essential traffic via the interleaved channel.

Its also possible to send data down the interleaved channel with a depth of 1 -ie just the bitstream - and no forward error correction.
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snadge

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2012, 10:29:34 PM »

how do they compare with your previous connection? (ADSL1 was it?)

your already getting more than the average 44db line at 8.2Mb..or are you forcing that by lowering the Noise Margin? if so then yes your FEC count will be higher, the lower the SNRM, the higher the error count. If I put my SNRM down to 3db the RSCorr (FEC) jumps up considerably, right now your FEC accounts for about 0.2% of all your traffic (i think) - I check the RS (all traffic) vs RSCorr (corrected) vs RSUnCorr (uncorrected, these cause CRC's) and roughly work out how much of my traffic is having to be corrected and compare - one thing I would like to know is just how much latency does correcting traffic add, i.e. how much slower are web pages and downloads if more of your traffic is having to be corrected vs un-corrected? - as far as I can tell it must be micro-seconds and why theres not much noticeable difference, only when the traffic cant be corrected and re-transmits occur.

what was your sync rate on ADSL1 (default noise margin)
and what is it on ADSL2+ (if your result above is with reduced noise margin)

some people on the border of where speeds may be better on ADSL2+ are usually better on ADSL1, your adding twice as many frequencies and these are "weaker" than the first 'half' that you use on ADSL1, and sharing the signal across them when noise is present just weakens the signal further, looking at your QLN it would seem that the noise starts around tone 120 and ends around 380, ADSL1 operates up to tone 256 and ADSL2+ extends it up to tone 512 - because the location of the noise in the tones it means that even though your doubling the use of tones in ADSL2+, your also 'roughly' doubling the 'introduced' noise (tones 257-380), but because these tones attenuate more and have a lower SNR than the lower tones of ADSL1 it means they are affected more by the noise resulting in less speed - also if you take a look at your QLN the noise seems slightly worse/stronger from tone 255-350 before lessening, these combined mean the ADSL2+ signal is taking much more of a hit on SNR and usable bits across those tones, this is why your not getting any/much increase from switching.

if you get 'some' increase and you dont notice any slowdown of traffic and web-pages still render at same speeds and dont 'hang' now and again, then it may be worth sticking with it and working on locating the source of the noise. One can get drawn into keep checking their xDSL stats and trying to keep sync high and errors low to the point it becomes obsessive, sometimes Im glad I cant check stats on my Sky Hub because I would be checking them all the time & trying different Noise Margins VS Error Counts etc lol... infact ive just purchased a Huawei HG612 so I can have a BCM6368 chipset with tweakable SNR and stats monitoring...lol

EDIT: I see you have an HG612...great, you can help me unlock it when it comes lol
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 10:33:05 PM by snadge »
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Aquiss - 900/110/16ms - TP-Link AR73

GigabitEthernet

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2012, 07:22:27 PM »

Well, on ADSL1 I got 8000Kbps at a 6dB margin (it actually synced at that at 7dB sometimes), here the default margin is 6dB (untweaked) and I get the same.

So, what can I do to see if the noise is in my home?
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Possible Interference?
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2012, 07:23:29 PM »

Here are the stats for tonight:

Code: [Select]

xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 8000
Max: Upstream rate = 1064 Kbps, Downstream rate = 8428 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 1077 Kbps, Downstream rate = 8015 Kbps


Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
TPS-TC: ATM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 4.3 4.9
Attn(dB): 43.5 22.1
Pwr(dBm): 21.7 12.9
ADSL2 framing
Path 0
MSGc: 59 10
B: 124 24
M: 1 8
T: 2 6
R: 10 8
S: 0.4970 5.9007
L: 2173 282
D: 64 4
Counters
Path 0
SF: 5666515 431938
SFErr: 220 390
RS: 736646719 1836985
RSCorr: 1377312 3150
RSUnCorr: 4425 0


Path 0
HEC: 2717 658
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1730425271 232253809
Data Cells: 61642979 3191555
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 216615 64342


ES: 129 202
SES: 1 0
UAS: 30 30
AS: 91531


Path 0
INP: 1.17 0.45
PER: 16.15 17.70
delay: 7.95 5.90
OR: 32.19 7.23


Bitswap: 47395 0


Total time = 1 days 1 hours 26 min 10 sec
FEC: 1377312 3150
CRC: 220 390
ES: 129 202
SES: 1 0
UAS: 30 30
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 11 min 10 sec
FEC: 15033 0
CRC: 5 0
ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 2627 57
CRC: 0 6
ES: 0 4
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 26 min 10 sec
FEC: 30110 335
CRC: 11 40
ES: 8 23
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 1347202 2815
CRC: 209 350
ES: 121 179
SES: 1 0
UAS: 30 30
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Since Link time = 1 days 1 hours 25 min 31 sec
FEC: 1377312 3150
CRC: 220 390
ES: 129 202
SES: 1 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0LOF: 0 0

Not looking too good :(.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 07:26:27 PM by arobertson545 »
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