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Author Topic: Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem  (Read 25226 times)

beanieboy182

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« on: July 29, 2012, 09:46:34 PM »

hey guys i stumbled onto this thread and wanted to ask the guys in the know about my line and what do you think about my line and ways to improve the graphs im about to show you
I can see in my bit loading and snr by tone graph that around the 480 there are a lot of spots missing and their there even when i reboot + the other 2 big ones worry me
so could someone shed some light if these are due to me and i can somehow make them better or anything like that
thanks a lot for the time if anyone replies :) <3
+ im obviously trying to get what i pay for and im on sky broadband (up to) 20meg unlimited and DLM is currently running on my line again as i asked for it just because i put a faceplate in on master socket and sorted out all my telephone wirering after years of getting around 6 meg and having drop outs lol
my line is very stable and i have had it up to around 16.5meg and stable for weeks but wanted to see if i could try something to sort it thats why im here :)
as i know little to nothing about quiet line noise and how to fix it im in your helpful hands!
kev

my line stats are:
(the retrain was my fault)

/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason:   1
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 896 Kbps, Downstream rate = 13475 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:         ADSL2+
Channel:      Fast
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):   6.6      7.5
Attn(dB):   29.0      15.5
Pwr(dBm):   1.6      10.6
Max(Kbps):   16000      1056
Rate (Kbps):   13475      896
         G.dmt framing
K:      211(0)      29
R:      16      16
S:      1      4
D:      64      8
         ADSL2 framing
MSGc:      59      66
B:      210      28
M:      1      4
T:      2      1
R:      16      16
S:      0.4998      4.0000
L:      3633      264
D:      64      8
         Counters
SF:      1442309      1301750
SFErr:      158      49
RS:      187500206      1956668
RSCorr:      1207027      70
RSUnCorr:   6518      0

HEC:      139      108
OCD:      18      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   744677860      60188459
Data Cells:   63901690      9029152
Drop Cells:   1854
Bit Errors:   0      0

ES:      950      19
SES:      3      0
UAS:      145      55
AS:      23432

INP:      1.12      1.93
PER:      16.24      18.00
delay:      7.99      8.00
OR:      32.00      32.00

Bitswap:   4740      478

Total time = 1 days 1 min 45 sec
SF  = 31929841
CRC = 3410
LOS = 3
LOF = 27
ES  = 950
Latest 1 day time = 1 min 45 sec
SF  = 6483
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 45 sec
SF  = 6483
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55381
CRC = 4
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 2
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF  = 5317104
CRC = 218
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 119
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55381
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55380
CRC = 5
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 2
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55443
CRC = 7
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 3
Showtime Drop Reason:   1
Last Retrain Reason:   1
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beanieboy182

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Re: Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2012, 07:03:52 PM »

no one :(
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burakkucat

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Re: Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 07:54:39 PM »

no one :(

 ^-^  Oh dear. A sad face. I think I know what has happened -- your post, being tucked away in a pre-existing thread has been overlooked by those who could help you. My evening meal is almost ready to eat, so I'll just make a couple of quick comments --

If your line is stable, why have you asked for the DLM to be restarted on it? It makes sense (at least to me) to have any DLM turned off.

As for gaps in the bit-loading, it could well be due to Broadcast radio transmitters in your region. Perhaps Asbokid will be able to correlate that gaps with known transmitters and perform geolocation of your approximate area.

 :)
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kitz

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Re: Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 08:54:48 PM »

Hi beanie boy and welcome :)

I'll split your posts out of this thread and move them over to the adsl section where hopefully it will be easier to see and someone may be able to come up with a suggestion as to what could be causing those gaps.
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asbokid

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2012, 09:34:27 PM »

Hello BeanieBoy,

Welcome to Kitz  :)

Quote
my line is very stable and i have had it up to around 16.5meg and stable for weeks but wanted to see if i could try something to sort it thats why im here :)

Glad to hear your line is stable.  You might be able to squeeze a few extra Mbps by lowering the target SNR. You've got 6.6dB to play with.  You could probably halve that with a decent transceiver in the modem, at the cost of some additional errors.  It really depends on your goals. Is speed more important than stability?

As Burakkucat has already mentioned, those major troughs in the Bit Loading graph are caused noise from AM broadcast radio ingress.   Not a lot you can do about that, unless you fancy shielding your subscriber line all the way back to the cabinet or to the exchange  :o

The notches higher up in the ADSL2+ spectrum cannot be AM (MW) broadcast though, since the frequencies are too high.  So discovering the cause might be worthwhile

Nevertheless, it's an impressive performance you've got there.   What sort of distance are you from the exchange?

Maybe give Paul's (Bald_Eagle) scripts a whirl. They are very precise.  If you want to PM or email the raw data that have gathered, I enjoy studying RF ingress  ::)

On that vein, if anyone wants to collaborate on a project to programmatically analyse QLN data for RF ingress then please say hello. There are a few ideas bouncing around in my otherwise empty head  :D

cheers, a
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beanieboy182

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2012, 07:53:06 PM »

awh great to have a responce and thanks for moving the post :D
i have now double filtered my whole telephone line from the bt line that comes directly into my house and the sky dg834gt plugs directly into it via the first filter
i got my stats up a bit and using a SNR of about 3.9 ish to 1.5
ill post some new screen shots and such
i am less than a mile from the green box and the exchange is around about a mile and a half away im guessing by googling exchanges and finding my closest one
i have also double filtered which actually is quadruple filtering a Dect phone i have and all my other phones (2 sockets) are 1 filter setups on each
line is super stable and have never had a drop out to be fair even when ive been running SNR down to 3.5 ish

(settings)

/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason:   8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 916 Kbps, Downstream rate = 15113 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:         ADSL2+
Channel:      Fast
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):   3.8      8.5
Attn(dB):   29.0      15.4
Pwr(dBm):   0.0      10.6
Max(Kbps):   17756      1080
Rate (Kbps):   15113      916
         G.dmt framing
K:      236(0)      29
R:      16      16
S:      1      4
D:      64      8
         ADSL2 framing
MSGc:      59      66
B:      235      28
M:      1      4
T:      2      1
R:      16      16
S:      0.4986      3.9111
L:      4043      270
D:      64      8
         Counters
SF:      59415      56682
SFErr:      1      1
RS:      7723986      984804
RSCorr:      284791      0
RSUnCorr:   76      0

HEC:      1      0
OCD:      0      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   34345892      2230694
Data Cells:   44567      13824
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0      0

ES:      410      1
SES:      28      9
UAS:      47      1935
AS:      963

INP:      1.01      1.89
PER:      16.20      17.60
delay:      7.97      7.82
OR:      32.08      32.72

Bitswap:   206      25

Total time = 7 hours 36 min 49 sec
SF  = 1689221
CRC = 1954
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 410
Latest 1 day time = 7 hours 36 min 49 sec
SF  = 1689221
CRC = 1954
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 410
Latest 15 minutes time = 6 min 49 sec
SF  = 25252
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 1
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 53868
CRC = 113
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 21
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
SF  = 0
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55583
CRC = 22
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 12
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55645
CRC = 18
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 12
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55520
CRC = 29
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 16
Showtime Drop Reason:   8000
Last Retrain Reason:   8000

dunno what the last retrain reason was but it reset my router which stopped my manual SNR adjustment...weird
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beanieboy182

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2012, 07:55:10 PM »

sorry also DLM is now off it only ran for 10 days and now apparently my line is set to 1.4mb/s
or i presume onces its complete it turns off again ?
does DLM stay on always ?
could be a problem lol
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burakkucat

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2012, 08:05:49 PM »

sorry also DLM is now off it only ran for 10 days and now apparently my line is set to 1.4mb/s
or i presume onces its complete it turns off again ?
does DLM stay on always ?
could be a problem lol

The Dynamic Line Management software package is something that certain ISPs / CPs are willing (or able) to turn off upon request from their customer. I am unaware of any configuration where it is turned on or off automatically. As far as I know, manual intervention is required to toggle it from one state to the other.
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beanieboy182

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2012, 08:48:21 PM »

ah thats great to know
i will defo ring up and get them to turn it off
they put DLM on my line so that it can adjust my speed because i sorted out all my telephone wirering and before it sucked :)
i just presumed it turned off after the 10 days as it says it will fluctuate for 10 days and then came back with a line setup of 1.4mbs or around that
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burakkucat

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2012, 09:59:59 PM »

I wonder if your ISP / CP just reset your line into "training mode", as if it was a newly provisioned service. That would fit with your comments about a ten day training period, etc.  ;)
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beanieboy182

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2012, 10:15:43 PM »

ah maybe ur right then :D
good to know someone out there is using their brain power! lol
thanks mate!
i wonder how im gonna sort out the ADSL2+ stuff to improve my speeds or line hmmz
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beanieboy182

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2012, 12:53:03 AM »

update
line has been on for a while now
/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason:   8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 916 Kbps, Downstream rate = 15113 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:         ADSL2+
Channel:      Fast
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):   3.9      8.0
Attn(dB):   29.0      15.4
Pwr(dBm):   0.0      10.6
Max(Kbps):   17844      1080
Rate (Kbps):   15113      916
         G.dmt framing
K:      236(0)      29
R:      16      16
S:      1      4
D:      64      8
         ADSL2 framing
MSGc:      59      66
B:      235      28
M:      1      4
T:      2      1
R:      16      16
S:      0.4986      3.9111
L:      4043      270
D:      64      8
         Counters
SF:      1175070      1120196
SFErr:      148      7
RS:      152759216      2282419
RSCorr:      4205709      7
RSUnCorr:   8475      0

HEC:      144      9
OCD:      14      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   678724606      49735981
Data Cells:   9988263      3379366
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0      0

ES:      478      3
SES:      28      9
UAS:      47      1935
AS:      19043

INP:      1.01      1.89
PER:      16.20      17.60
delay:      7.97      7.82
OR:      32.08      32.72

Bitswap:   4128      433

Total time = 12 hours 38 min 9 sec
SF  = 2804876
CRC = 2101
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 478
Latest 1 day time = 12 hours 38 min 9 sec
SF  = 2804876
CRC = 2101
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 478
Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 9 sec
SF  = 30203
CRC = 2
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 1
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55578
CRC = 7
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 3
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
SF  = 0
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55455
CRC = 11
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 5
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55578
CRC = 15
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 7
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55517
CRC = 9
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 4
Showtime Drop Reason:   8000
Last Retrain Reason:   8000

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burakkucat

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2012, 03:22:47 AM »

Quote
SNR (dB):   3.9      8.0
Attn(dB):   29.0      15.4
Pwr(dBm):   0.0      10.6
Max(Kbps):   17844      1080
Rate (Kbps):   15113      916

Looking at the above, I'd say that you are probably getting the most throughput that you can for that sync speed.
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beanieboy182

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2012, 05:46:40 PM »

darn :P thought i could push it a bit more
oh well not too shabby
this time last year was getting around 6meg haha
double filtered phone side of things and so cant do much more :(
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beanieboy182

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Re: ADSL2+ Tones & Bitloading Problem
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2012, 09:33:46 PM »

The notches higher up in the ADSL2+ spectrum cannot be AM (MW) broadcast though, since the frequencies are too high.  So discovering the cause might be worthwhile

im wondering if you could help me work on that a bit :S
or give me any ideas to try ? or advice ?
sorry for the asking for help kinda deal but i really appreciate any info you guys give me!

thanks in advance to anyone who has helped or does

kevin
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