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Author Topic: FTTC Problems after line repair  (Read 4118 times)

Kami

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FTTC Problems after line repair
« on: June 25, 2012, 09:53:13 PM »

i would first like to say hello, long time visitor first time poster here in this place that is great for all information broadband related. ;)

i have recently had bt infinity 2 installed within the last 2 weeks. at first things were great. started off at a steady 40/10 profile and it gradually increased to 50/14  BT estimated my line to support 63/15 so it was well on its way to training up to that (or near)  then last weekend during some bad windy weather we noticed that our other phone line, (we have 2 phone lines from the 56k days) was totally dead no dial tone etc.. reported this to BT and within a day they came to repair it, our line that runs from the telegraph pole to our house had been damaged and water was getting in to the cable. they replaced it and went on their way.

since then our broadband has had a great drop in throughput and increased latency the connection itself seems stable though and its within BTs acceptable line speeds for FTTC

it has dropped down to 38/9 and latency is up at least 15 ms

here are some dumped stats from my modem, the modem has been rebooted within the last 4 or so hours.
unfortunately i don't have any comparison from when the connection was first installed since i only unlocked it to see if there was any notable reported problems from it.
 
Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max:    Upstream rate = 15760 Kbps, Downstream rate = 49304 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 15425 Kbps, Downstream rate = 42273 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        5.9             6.4
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        11.4            6.9
                        VDSL2 framing
                        Path 0
B:              63              237
M:              1               1
T:              64              64
R:              16              16
S:              0.0482          0.4908
L:              13288           4140
D:              671             1
I:              80              127
N:              80              254
                        Counters
                        Path 0
OHF:            7737718         150515
OHFErr:         19              0
RS:             1485690357              319002
RSCorr:         130375          2
RSUnCorr:       831             0

                        Path 0
HEC:            230             0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1458881598              0
Data Cells:     8326290         0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             8               2
SES:            0               0
UAS:            38              38
AS:             17961

                        Path 0
INP:            3.00            0.00
PER:            2.31            7.85
delay:          8.00            0.00
OR:             83.05           31.57

Bitswap:        5269            729

i am just wondering what could cause such a loss from such a small amount of cable being replaced.
the telegraph pole is maybe 20 yards from the house.

any help/ ideas would be greatly appreciated 

Thanks.
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asbokid

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Re: FTTC Problems after line repair
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2012, 10:04:14 PM »

Hi Kami,

Welcome to the forum!



i am just wondering what could cause such a loss from such a small amount of cable being replaced.
the telegraph pole is maybe 20 yards from the house.

Is the Distribution Point pole-mounted?  How far from the pole to the cabinet?  Maybe work other than replacing your drop wire was done?  We had best not insult the engineer by publicly questioning the quality of his repair :-X

Paul's (Bald_Eagle) scripts are very useful for plotting more detailed statistics.

cheers, a
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 03:45:44 PM by asbokid »
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c6em

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Re: FTTC Problems after line repair
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2012, 07:21:11 AM »

As I'm not on FTTC this might not be relevant............

But on standard ADSL I've had the situation where a line fails completely.  However the issue to note is that in the immediate few seconds/minutes/hours before it fails totally the line may be disconnecting on an almost second by second basis as the cable quite literely comes apart.
This is more likely to happen if a cable is detiorating slowly rather than being subject to a clean sudden break (such as branch across line)
The DLM will react to these rapid disconnections by taking action to downgrade the line's speed.
The line then fails totally.

So you then get the line mended but you find the broadband speed is now worse then prior to the fault and attribute it to the line repair work.
Not so.
The problem was what happened in the minutes before the line failed.

I've had this occur I think twice now and had to ask the ISP for a SNR reset on the broadband to return the line to its former speed. (once was almost certainly BT mending someone else's line and disturbing mine in the process and then mending mine before they left site leaving my broadband in a mess - and me to discover it when I returned home).



« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 07:44:15 AM by c6em »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC Problems after line repair
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 08:00:57 AM »

Hello Kami & welcome to the Kitz forum.

There are 3 speed sets reported in various places.

We need to be clear which you refer to.


Attainable rate - Reported by the modem as  Max:    Upstream rate = 15760 Kbps, Downstream rate = 49304 Kbps
Sync speed     - Reported by the modem as  Path:   0, Upstream rate = 15425 Kbps, Downstream rate = 42273 Kbps

IP Profile         - Reported via BT's speed test http://test.speedtester.bt.com/

It should be noted that IP Profile is only updated when the ROUTER has initiated a new PPPoE session.
The Openreach MODEM can resync "on the fly" without causing a new PPPoE session, so the IP Profile as reported by the BT test can sometimes/often be incorrect.

The only sure way to ensure the correct IP Profile is being reported by BT is to force a new PPPoE session by disconnecting & reconnecting via the ROUTER.

This will not be seen by DLM as instability whereas disconnecting & reconnecting the MODEM would be.

However, we can quite accurately calculate IP Profile as 96.79% of sync speed.
e.g. a capped 40Mb service will have a sync speed of 39999 k (39.999Mb)
IP Profile = 39999 x 96.79% = 38715 k.
This would be reported as 38.72 Mbps by the BT speed test.

If BT's IP Profile has been updated, it should be reported as 40.92 Mbps for your sync speed of 42273 k.

As mentioned by asbokid, the Windows Graphing Scripts would help in graphically plotting current and/or ongoing statistics.
Alternatively, but much harder to study over time, would be to run xdslcmd info --stats and xdslcmd info pbParams at regular intervals, posting the results here if you wish to discuss matters.

I see that DS Interleaving is on at a fairly low level, Impulse Noise Protection & delay are also on for your connection.

You only had 8 errored seconds within the 4 hour period & no serious errored seconds.
Your error counts are not massive, but could be monitored over time.

I had exactly the same symptoms when engineers messed about at the top of the pole with my DP on it while they were providing new connections from another DP on the same pole for other users.

It eventually turned out to be a very weak underground cable connection to my DP that took 3 MONTHS from first reporting it, regularly providing proof of intermittent disconnections etc. before it was finally fixed.
The cable end actually fell off in the engineer's hands as he was checking the joint.

I actually now suspect this dodgy joint had been a major contributor to my connection issues over the last 11 months.

The 12 month anniversary of FTTC being installed at my home was 2 days ago & it's still not performing as well as it did for the first month.

Much patience is required at times when attempting to get FTTC connection issues dealt with.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 08:03:53 AM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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Kami

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Re: FTTC Problems after line repair
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2012, 04:09:23 PM »

Thanks for all the replys :)
@ asbokid the line is around 350-400 meters away from the cab.
& i wasent implying the BT engineer did a bad job in anyway its totaly possible that sumthing else is a miss here but just wanted some feedback from other possible causes of this loss of speed  ;)

@Bald_Eagle your ip profile est is spot on
Download speedachieved during the test was - 34.93 Mbps
 For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 12 Mbps-40.92 Mbps .
 Additional Information:
 IP Profile for your line is - 40.92 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 6.67Mbps
 Additional Information:
 Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

from BT's line checker.

also here is a info --pbParams dump from my modem.

i will get those graph scripts installed tonight to get some more detailed info over a longer period.

Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max:    Upstream rate = 15492 Kbps, Downstream rate = 50060 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 15425 Kbps, Downstream rate = 42273 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3959)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963)
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:      15492 kbps         50060 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.9 dBm          11.4 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  7.3     36.7    55.2     N/A    17.2    44.8    66.5

Signal Attenuation(dB):  13.2    35.9    54.0     N/A    17.2    44.8     N/A

        SNR Margin(dB):  6.3     6.3     6.2      N/A    6.3     6.3      N/A

         TX Power(dBm): -4.0    -5.6     6.3      N/A    8.9     7.8      N/A

#
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC Problems after line repair
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2012, 06:18:27 PM »

Those connection stats tell us that you are connected to a Huawei DSLAM, so you do have the most compatible modem for your connection.

They also indicate that you are quite a distance from your cabinet, unable to use any of the higher frequencies due to attenuation & your SNRM values confirm that you are achieving more or less the maximum that current line conditions will allow.

If it really is only 350m to 400m to your cabinet, the attainable rates & sync speeds do look quite low.
It may be that your connection is all aluminium cabling, your line does not take a direct route to the cabinet, you are actually connected to a different cabinet, or there are some physical high resistance/attenuation "problems" with your connection.

These are the pbParams stats from a 400m connection for comparison:-

Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 2
Max: Upstream rate = 25574 Kbps, Downstream rate = 66764 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 10000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39998 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3959)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3959)
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:      25574 kbps         66764 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.9 dBm          13.3 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 3.6 20.4 30.7   N/A 10.7 26.0 39.3
Signal Attenuation(dB): 9.0 20.2 31.2   N/A 10.7 26.0 39.3
        SNR Margin(dB): 21.1 21.1 21.1   N/A 13.8 14.1 13.3
         TX Power(dBm): -4.8 -24.6 6.6   N/A 10.3 8.1 6.5
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 06:23:10 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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