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[broadstairs]

I know (now not when I joined TT some 4 years ago) that if I ever want to leave they will not allow me to keep my phone number. I cannot believe that there is any technical reason why this has to be but apparently it is a rule. Is there anyone here who can provide a good technical reason why transferring in is OK (I did it from BT) but transferring out is not done by TT? I honestly believe this is more to do with providing reasons not to leave than any technical reason.

Stuart

[Black Sheep]

I know (now not when I joined TT some 4 years ago) that if I ever want to leave they will not allow me to keep my phone number. I cannot believe that there is any technical reason why this has to be but apparently it is a rule. Is there anyone here who can provide a good technical reason why transferring in is OK (I did it from BT) but transferring out is not done by TT? I honestly believe this is more to do with providing reasons not to leave than any technical reason.

Stuart

I'm no expert on this by any stretch of the imagination, but I thought you could migrate your number from SP to SP, regardless of who they were Could be wrong though.

[broadstairs]

No I know it is a rule they will not allow transfers out...

Stuart

[Black Sheep]

Every day's a school day for me.  Cheers for info.

[kitz]

This has been the case for a while re TalkTalk FMPF, and something I raised some reservations about Sky MPF  (SVBN) some time ago as indications may be that they are (or at least were) in the same boat  and I forsaw Sky some Sky users being up in arms when they realise this when a contract ends and they wish to move out, because Im pretty sure that many are not aware of this practive.


  I believe the problems come as they dont have proceedures in place for number porting when they are the loosing ISP..  nor do they seem to be in any hurry to put this proceedure in place because they have nothing to gain from it..  in fact they may even retain customers just for the simple fact they dont want to change phone number.  The losing SP has to release the phone no to the gaining SP.

This practice though is against guidelines set out by OFCOM

Law and regulations

European Union
Member States are required to ensure the provision of number portability to subscribers pursuant to Article 30 of the Universal Services Directive (2002/22/EU).

United Kingdom
Powers to enable Ofcom to set conditions requiring communications providers to provide number portability are set out in sections 51 and 58 of the Communications Act 2003 (the "Act").
Obligations imposed on a communications provider to provide number portability to its subscribers and to provide portability to other communications providers are set out in General Condition 18 ("Number Portability"). Ofcom has got powers to enforce any breach of that Condition under sections 94 to 103 of the Act. Civil liability for breach of that Condition could also arise, but Ofcom must first give a consent for the bringing of such civil proceedings under section 104 of the Act.

I believe you can complain to OFCOM, but they seem to be toothless at the current time.

I also believe it can be done, but only if you switch back to BT who can reclaim ownership of the line if it previously was a BT line.

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/numbering/guidance-tele-no/number-portability-info/

Apologies if this practice has changed within the past couple of months as not on my PC so cant do much googling.

[burakkucat]

No I know it is a rule they will not allow transfers out...

My question to TalkTalk would be: "Whose rule?".

[kitz]

I could be wrong, but its my belief that they dont have the technology in place to pass back ownership of the phone number on to the gaining ISP, despite having the technology to be able to receive from the loosing ISP.  (Priorities!!).

After all the recent take overs by TT I should imagine that they hold a huge portion of the consumer base (takes me too long to google so if anyones interested they can do so)...  but I should imagine that Sky and TTs customers jointly for broadband would be easily more than that of BT.  No idea when it comes to a telco provider, but I bet TT is up there.

Yet neither of these SPs appear to have proceedures for passing on a phone number to a new SP.  Could you imagine if BT said it couldnt do this either, and instead new Sky/TT customers had to be allocated a new phone number when they move to them?

If they want to be classed as a telco SP, then IMHO they should be made to adhere to the same rules as BT.

So instead what happens is the number just kinda goes dormant and  unused for a period of time.

/rant

[Oranged]

As this is legislated as an EU Directive then surely an individual direct action case could be put forward to the Court of Justice of the European Union ?

[broadstairs]

Yes but first we need to have a go at TT to see if they will comply.

Stuart

[broadstairs]

My post in a thread on the TT forum asking for an explanation was deleted!! The reply to the original poster was

The majority of customers have no preference as to whether they retain their number or not.

So I have now created my own thread quoting the OFCOM stuff and asking for an explanation. Lets see what happens to that.

Stuart

[guest]

The majority of customers have no preference as to whether they retain their number or not.

I can actually believe that. Most people I know barely use the landline for voice - its just a source of annoying cold callers (nobody suggest the TPS, its a joke).

If you suggested they couldn't port a mobile number then that'd be an issue. Landline, not really.

TT should still do it if requested though. No excuses on that front.

[broadstairs]

I can actually believe that. Most people I know barely use the landline for voice - its just a source of annoying cold callers (nobody suggest the TPS, its a joke).

If you suggested they couldn't port a mobile number then that'd be an issue. Landline, not really.

I think it is actually an age related problem, most older folk do have landlines and would want to keep it. I would want to keep mine if I move because so many of our extended family have that and not our mobiles, my wife thinks mobiles are an annoyance not a convenience so rarely carries hers (its PAYG BTW and she uses about £5 every 3-4 months!). I do carry mine but most important contacts like bank, doctors, dentist and other companies I need to be contacted by have the landline number. Having to change it is a real pain and not an inconsiderable amount of inconvenience. I really wold not be that upset if I had to lose my mobile number as I get more unwanted calls on that than I do the landline!

Stuart

[tonyappuk]

I'm sure it's age related. Like most old folk I find the preoccupation with mobile communication by my grandchildren quite incomprehensible. Perhaps if I was still working that would have to change but I fully support Broadstairs stance. I would hate to lose my landline number. After 40 years it's very easy to remember! No idea what my PAYG mobile number is.
Tony

[guest]

I don't particularly like mobiles - can't see why I should be "contactable" 24/7/365. If you want that I should be then you can pay me for being on-call.

The problem with landlines is you can spam them via VoIP for next to nothing in cost terms. That's why we all get massive amounts of Indian/US/whatever spam (cold calls).

We got a Truecall unit a couple of years ago but frankly that's just a sticking plaster on a broken system. In the last 12 months 93.6% of incoming calls have been spam - and we are ex-directory, registered with TPS/MPS etc etc. In short its an utter waste of time and we've been having serious discussions as to whether to just not bother attaching a phone to the line. I think that will happen within the next 12 months.

I'm sure the same will happen with mobiles but for now the cost puts off most of the PPI Claims/Ambulance Chasers/Insulation garbage/scams we get deluged with on the landline. Everyone else I know is much the same, kids only use it when their mobile has run out of credit and they never answer the landline. I can't say I blame them.

[kitz]

>> I think it is actually an age related problem, most older folk do have landlines and would want to keep it.

I believe you may be right..   I havent mentioned it to my parents yet, because I initially suggested they used sky for their adsl...  but that was back before SVBN... and I can damn well bet they are now on SVBN.   They wont like it one little bit if they lose the phone number that theyve had for the past 35ish years.
Its bad enough atm trying to get mum to change her ancient mobile phone, despite me offering her a much better model for free.
But at the end of the day they use the landline for practically everything and mobile hardly ever.

TBH I wouldnt like a new phone no..  Im happy with my landline no..  I did swap it once soon after I moved in here, but that was because the police + BT advised me to do so.
Im quite lucky in that I get relatively few spam calls these days - although I get them on my mobile.

The fact is, its easy to transfer mobile numbers between networks, so I dont see why its such a big deal to do so for landlines... it just means that the LLU providers need to have the right records and software to be able to do so.

>> and we are ex-directory, registered with TPS/MPS

Funny enough, so are my parents, but they really are having a dreadful time atm particularly with the Indian type calls. They are not the sort of people to pass their phone no out willy nilly.. It only started in the past year...  and I did hear a wee rumour about Skys DB being leaked.