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Author Topic: FTTC - Self-install on its way?  (Read 10350 times)

GigabitEthernet

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Re: FTTC - Self-install on its way?
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2012, 11:07:38 PM »

Oh I really hope they don't do self install.  You just have to look at Digital Region to see what a huge balls up that becomes.  Me and many other people who have the service had major issues getting connected due to the lack of an engineer visiting the house.

Nothing to do with us not knowing what to do (I already have an NTE2005 installed) but simply down to the fact Openreach have incorrect documentation for which D side is connected to which property, so they frequently jumper the wrong line to the wrong house.  On Infinity this is not a problem as the engineer visits the house, finds no dial tone and sticks a tone generator on so he can trace it back at the cabinet.

On Digital Region, Openreach jumper at the cabinet then go home.  The customer is left wondering where the dial tone has gone and in my case I was left from Wednesday morning until Monday before Openreach would even admit there was a problem. 

Granted its worse because they just blame the Digital Region cabinet, despite the fact I knew that was jumpered perfectly as calling my land line was ringing in someone elses house.  But still its asking for a lot more problems.

Hang on, I thought Digital Region had nothing to do with BT, or OpenReach for the matter. Do Digital Region not have their own engineers as it not a BT provided service, or so I thought?
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Self-install on its way?
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2012, 11:23:27 PM »

Digital Region operates similarly to the Openreach GEA/NGA FTTC model. They plant one of their FTTC cabinets in close proximity to an existing Openreach PCP and request that Openreach provide the tie cables between the two cabinets. When the time comes that a subscriber migrates to the Digital Region service, Openreach are required to disconnect the subscriber within their PCP and jumper it through to the Digital Region FTTC.

I cannot help but think about the Teletubbies "Messes and Muddles"!  ::)
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snadge

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Re: FTTC - Self-install on its way?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2012, 01:22:16 AM »


exactly - it could be shipped with the router and a "how to" picture guide... BUT, theres always those that dont have an NTE-5 such as new builds (XNTE) and old builds (LJU) and therefore a technician must install an NTE5 + SSFP on the circuit near the entry point of the drop wire (or cable coming in from the XNTE) ...

I think it will be a failed trial - too many people with bad internal wiring and/or using the router on the 5th extension box upstairs and/or with other extension sockets unfiltered with devices on such as phones and sky multi-room boxes - this will raise customer 'churn' when end users are getting sub optimal FTTC speeds - Ideally self install filters should only be sent out to those that have only 1 master socket and thats it! ...bridged taps anyone??

Bridge (Bridged) Tap
A bridge tap is an unterminated branch in a cable, or any branch on a pair that is not a direct connection between the Line and the subscriber.
Any signal transmitted on the main copper pair will also travel down the bridge tap. Open end of the bridge tap (or high impedance when
filter is installed) will result of the signal being reflected back towards the main copper pair. In the voice band this reflection will result in echo;
in the DSL band it will lower attainable data rates.
In the case of longer bridge taps (20- 40 ft) very drastic changes in data rates will occur due to significant changes in insertion loss and impedance.


in laymans terms (for those unaware) - having your filter and modem on first socket in your home but the signal travels down to all other 'extension' sockets and reflects back into the modem, this can degrade VDSL signal drastically - ADSL signal not as much but can impact it, this is why its best terminating the xDSL signal at the master socket with an SSFP rather than a dongle filter (which does not terminate it at master socket)

VDSL2 + SELF INSTALL DONGLE FILTERS = BAD IDEA!!!

Don't agree Snadge.  Pretty much most of your arguments could also be applied to ADSL, which, if I remember correctly was offered as self install or engineer install if you didn't feel up to it !!  It might even have been engineer only originally (it's been a long time and BE's memory isn't what it used to be !!).

Anyways, I think self-install is a good idea.  There was absolutely no reason that I needed an engineer to get VDSL2 going, other than putting some more money into BTOR's pocket.

Being brutally honest, only the more tech savvy and 'clued up' customers would know if they were receiving sub-optimal speeds and these are the same people that will already know how to optimise their connections.  The rest of 'joe public' will just know its faster than their old conection and most likely, be happy with that.  If you don't agree, look at your neighbour whose connection you 'broke'.  Perfectly happy until you brought to his attention that it should be a lot better.  Most users on VDSL2 will be exactly the same.  What you don't know....etc etc  ;)

fair enough, all im saying is VDSL2 is highly affected by bridged taps and poor wiring (more so than ADSL) and (I think) thats why it required a visit in first place.. otherwise they would have just sent dongly filters out from day 1, also when people are upgrading to fibre they do so to get 'faster speeds' so the first thing they are likely to do is 'check' it on speedtest.net , there are many 'inbetween' users (more than tech savvy) who dont know how to make sure its optimal or how it works BUT knows how to use a webiste to check to see if they are getting 40Mbps or 80Mbps...and when they are not, customer churn will increase when they start calling their ISPs to tell them they are getting 15Mbps and its all down to internal wiring/conditions and setup - ADSL1/2/2+ while also affected by same conditions is not as sesitive as VDSL2 and seeing as VDSL2 is sold as a superfast fibre broadband package then its best to make sure its exactly that, BT know that internal wiring can severely degrade a VDSL2 signal, whereas with ADSL it can have some impact but not as much as it can with VDSL2

I suppose what I mean is its a bad idea for ISPs if they want to keep churn down, maybe if they send out a booklet or paper with the dongle explaining how wiring setups can affect speeds, so if the user does get less speeds he can determine if his internal wiring MAY be a cause because he/she has been pre-educated.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 01:29:33 AM by snadge »
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC - Self-install on its way?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2012, 07:02:58 AM »

Blackeagle is correct. The very high percentage of EU's aren't interested in the 'ins and outs' of VDSL signalling. All they want is for BT Vision to work, Little Johnny able to 'host' an on-line game, and Mum and Dad to be able to stream ITV on-line, to be able to catch up on Coronation Street.

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