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[doby]

I recently replaced my old router which started behaving erratically (I let it be erratic for quite some time  ), it lost sync numerous times a day and crashed alot resulting in my IP profile being set at 2000kbps. I'm not sure when exactly this happened, could have been a couple of months ago but its just now that I've got fed up with the limited bandwidth and started to do something about it.

I bought a new router and have had it on for over a week now, after the first 3 days of using it I noticed the IP profile hadn't been raised so contacted my ISP and they did an SNR reset so I'm back in the 10 day training period. Whether or not this will bring my IP profile up I'm not sure but it seemed to be my ISP's course of action presumably because they can initiate it without getting BTw involved.

Its been over 3 days since the SNR reset and my IP profile remains at 2000kbps. My router always syncs at 8128kbps and previous to the SNR reset my noise margin was 15db steady and since fluctuates between 9.5 and 12.5db.

I've read up on the bRAS profiling and it seems a large percentage shift should happen within 4-6 hours, however if I understand this correctly it working is dependant on a change in sync speed and as my line always syncs at 8128kbps in theory it wont initiate a profile raise from the 2000kbps profile because to my knowledge this profile has been in place for quite some time alongside a 8128kbps sync.

Aside from getting BTw to do a manual profile raise (which I hear is like getting blood out of a stone and they wont do until the 10 day period is up anyway) would it be possible to kick start bRAS into operation?
Say I was to introduce lots of noise onto the line so my connection synced at a lower speed, wait for it to register and then remove the noise so it was back to normal, would this get things moving again?
Or would this be counterproductive during the 10 day training period?

I'm fed up of doing BT speed tests day after day and seeing no improvement, I'm getting a little obsessed, I want it sorted dammit! 

Thoughts?

[burakkucat]

Hello and welcome to the Kitz forum, doby.

I appreciate your sense of frustration and urge to try something - anything - to force a change in the setting. The advice, for now, is please don't. 

What would be useful to know is:

(1) to which exchange are you connected, (2) what type service do you receive, (3) who is your ISP / CP and (4) what modem/router are you now using?

If you could set up and run Routerstats (or similar) for a couple of days, that would provide us with a good picture as to how your line is currently behaving.

Finally the attachment of a "screen-scrape" of the results of the latest BT Wholesale Performance Tester should complete the picture, thus allowing one of our experts to offer some targeted advice.

[kitz]

Quick reply as its very late and I was on my way to bed.

~ Just to confirm - If you do a BTw performance test does it confirm your IP profile at 2000.

>> My router always syncs at 8128kbps
~ It would be interesting to see some line stats...  from experience its usually the 'good lines' that are most likely to get stuck at the 2Mbps profile.

>>> Say I was to introduce lots of noise onto the line so my connection synced at a lower speed,

Whilst some say this has worked for them, from my own experience it didnt  and getting my ISP to get BTw to do a manual reset was the only thing that worked for me (I used to get stuck bRAs a lot - hence why I was so happy to go LLU).

Depending on your ISP they may make you wait 10 days before contacting BTw :/

>>> Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
haha B*cat beat me to it..  but leaving this as was typed...  cause I really do need to get to bed lol

[burakkucat]

>>> Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
haha B*cat beat me to it..  but leaving this as was typed...  cause I really do need to get to bed lol

And 55 minutes later, b*cat also needs to find his bed! 

[doby]

Thanks for the welcome was surprised I've had replies already so late at night so thanks.

OK, I will restrain myself from experimenting, here are the answers to your questions.

1) Exchange: Sticklepath   BT Code: WWSTIC   Distance direct: 855 meters    Distance by road: 966 meters
2) ADSLMax
3) Eclipse
4) Belkin N+ Router/modem F5D8635-4v1

Latest BT Speedtest:



I've started routerstats, no idea if its working properly, will check it tomorrow. Its currently reporting an RX noise margin of 17db, If that's the downstream margin my router interface doesn't agree, its currently stating 12.5db 

Depending on your ISP they may make you wait 10 days before contacting BTw :/

They did give that impression when they explained the SNR reset so I'm pretty much powerless until next Tuesday. 

[kitz]

It does look like you you may be stuck. 

For some reason, the stuck 2Mb profile seems to happen with lines that are capable of a sync much higher than 8128 if it wasnt for the limitation of adsl1 (which as 12.5dB) you would be.

The reason why 2Mb is because thats the 'default' profile if for some reason your correct details arent being picked up.

>>> They did give that impression when they explained the SNR reset

TBH there should in fact be no real reason for this 10 day wait and 3 days should be enough to see that a line has become stuck, but it can sometimes be difficult for the ISP to get BTw to reset a stuck bRAS, which is why they make you wait longer and hope that it corrects itself in the meantime.

My own line was notorious for getting stuck and I know what a battle my ISP had each and every time it happened.   To be fair though this was a few years ago and BTw (and the ISPs) should be more aware now that this can happen.

B*cats suggestion of using routerstats is a good one.. if you can graph it to show a good stable line and elimiate any other possibilities such as noise or line fault then it gives you more ammunition to your bow to go back to your ISP.

>> Its currently reporting an RX noise margin of 17db, If that's the downstream margin my router interface doesn't agree, its currently stating 12.5db

I believe theres a couple of routers that swap the up/down figures around in the interface..  if you post your full line stats we may be able to see if this is the case.
However if your line is syncing at way under its capability then its possible that this is why the SNRM is so high.  We do obviously though need to check the line stats/router stats just to make sure your line isnt being wildly erratic and is fluctuating between 12/17dB.

[doby]

Ignore the 17db reading, I hadn't configured the software  so it wasn't actually taking any readings (was far too late last night to start fiddling around, I thought it may just work once connected).

Its now taking correct readings, ideally how long should I run it for?

Here's my current line stats (cant get extended stats for my router )

TBH there should in fact be no real reason for this 10 day wait and 3 days should be enough to see that a line has become stuck, but it can sometimes be difficult for the ISP to get BTw to reset a stuck bRAS, which is why they make you wait longer and hope that it corrects itself in the meantime.

I think the 10 day wait in my situation is because BTw insist on the training period being completed before taking further action. As I currently understand it there was no real reason for my connection to have had an SNR reset anyway, I fully explained the situation to my ISP (whilst hammering on about the likelihood of having a stuck profile) and its more their incompetence why they have taken this route. If I had known what I know now I would have instead argued my point for a manual re-profile when they suggested the SNR reset. I do kind of trust them to understand the situation better than me but obviously not.

[burakkucat]

Thank you for the answers to my queries,

Its now taking correct readings, ideally how long should I run it for?

Ideally we would like to see a full 24 hour cycle, so a minimum of one day, please.

[doby]

I stupidly restarted my computer forgetting I was running routerstats but from what I saw on it earlier the SNRM remained around 12db occasionally dipping below and above by 0.5 to 1db so I think noise issues can be ruled out.

Contacted my ISP again telling them the SNR reset had had no effect at shifting the profile, was told to wait until the 10 day period was up (Monday) before contacting them again and they would get BTw involved.

They also told me to restart my router once a day to try and get the resync to bring the profile up, I questioned whether it was more important to keep a constant sync connection for 3 days but they insisted resyncing would be more effective.

Generally peed off with the whole thing 

Also would just like to get your thoughts on adaptive max logic, is it in operation on 20CN exchanges? I've read a lot of threads created after August 2007 where people are still advised to wait 3 days for a large profile increases (even though blip logic *should* no longer exist) and rarely read threads where people confirmed their profile increased a large amount within the 4-6 hour target. Does it even work like it should?

[GigabitEthernet]

I don't know if it will help you, but I have left my router off for a few hours before to try and get the IP profile raised on my line. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Maybe worth a try?

[doby]

I don't know if it will help you, but I have left my router off for a few hours before to try and get the IP profile raised on my line. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Maybe worth a try?

I'm tempted to try this, have read this has worked for other people too.
Is it instantly raised after you turn it back on or do you then have to wait the number of hours required (depending on the percentage increase)?

Edit: Although thinking about it having a line which always syncs at the maximum means I never have any changes in sync speed logged which probably doesn't help to initialise the profile to get moving.

[GigabitEthernet]

Is it instantly raised after you turn it back on or do you then have to wait the number of hours required

When I have tried it, the profile didn't instantly change, it took an hour or so. Leave it over night to be sure.

The BT IP profile system is very odd though. Sometimes, I have to wait a week for the IP profile to change from say, 4500 to 6000Kbps, yet sometimes it takes only an hour or so to go from 5500 to 6000. I don't get it  .

[doby]

Left it off all night, turned it back on this morning and as of yet no change 

I think its right royally stuck!

[doby]

I've got increasingly inpatient with my stuck profile and decided to experiment (going against the advice from burakkucat) and tried to trigger the DLM into action by introducing noise onto the line in an attempt to decrease the sync speed. The theory being that if I could get off the sticky 2000kbps profile that once I resynced at my usual stable rate I would see the profile rise within hours. At this point it looks like its going to need a manual reset anyway so I thought to hell with it.

So I connected a phone straight onto the line (with no filter) and left it off the hook which bought my sync down to 1342kbps, left it for over 75 mins then removed the phone and my sync went back to 8128kbps.
Did a BT speedtest and the DLM had indeed reduced my profile inline with the sync to 1000kbps.
24 hours later and the profile is still at 1000kbps so it seems although the DLM can respond to deceases in sync, it cant to increases.

Kitz I have been trawling though other threads on here from users with a similar issue and a number of times you have hinted to having a theory about the stuck profile issue but never gone into it fully and I for one would like to hear it.

So as it stands from everything I have tried and experienced I think that when a connection starts flapping the DLM sets it to the default 2000kbps profile as an automated attempt to stabilise the line. This profile is one which doesn't have the ability to respond to upward sync changes (and therefore profile increases) due to its fixed nature and possibly forces the end user to seek intervention by BTw (through the ISP) as a way to address the flapping incident and confirm its demise before getting the profile reset. In a sense it is therefore not a bug but a safeguard to keep a connection live and ensure its on going health. I really cant believe if it were a bug it hasn't been addressed for a good 6 years. Also the good quality line factor is strange, other than the possibility that the DLM has issues logging 8128kbps syncs which are capable of more and so register as something adaptive max logic doesn't understand (isn't in the script), therefore cant respond to.

I've probably got my jargon all confused and am way off the mark anyway, would just like to get your theory as I've invested lots of research time on this now and want to settle my mind. 

[kitz]

Hmmmmmm  your line sounds like it behaves how mine did.  
It wWas quick enough to react to a single drop in sync but wouldnt respond to an increase.  For example I got stuck after an electrician was doing some work on my home which must have caused a lot of noise, and once after a power cut.

None of the suggestions such as leaving off overnight etc ever used to help me.

As to theory - not a good day to ask as past few days have been manic and Im really so very tired and having a bad head spin day..  but yes I think youve covered the main point aside from various line lengths have various power (PSD) profiles - ie short line has more power cut back.  It definitely seems to affect those lines that are capable of syncing at >8128 if it wasnt for adsl1 limitations.

Im probably having a brain fart moment.. but it would be interesting if you could somehow get a sync in the 600-700 6000-7000 (6-7Mbps) region..   but am hesitant about suggesting you experiment more in case that messes up your chances of approaching your ISP on Tues.

At least my old ISP knew that this line had a problem wih stuck profiles and I could go to them and say 'Its happened again'... and let them fight BTw for me.

----
Edited because of really stupid typo