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Author Topic: New FTTC install - errors on line  (Read 6160 times)

newport258

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New FTTC install - errors on line
« on: June 13, 2012, 12:53:53 PM »

Hi,

Just had BT Infinity 2 installed on a brand new phone line, BT estimated 56 down and 20 up

In reality i have the following stats:

Attainable rate:    50044 down       16368 up
SNR margin:         9.8 down           9.6 up
Line att:              0 down             0 up
Output power:      12.8 down         6.3 up

Actual Line rate:   39999 down       10000 up

Here are my questions :)

1,  Why is my actual profile stuck at 39999  and 10000 up ?
2,  Is the SNR quite high, i thought it used to stick around the 6db mark, which would give me better attainable rates ?
3, Been connected for 15mins and done 2 speed tests and look at the error count:

CRC Errors:     100 down     0 up
FEC Errors:      9 down        9 up
HEC Errors:      32 down      0 up

Should i be getting that many errors?

Thanks for your help in advance.

p.s. the BTO modem is hacked.

Cheers,

Jon
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: New FTTC install - errors on line
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2012, 01:27:57 PM »

Hi newport258 & Welcome to the Kitz forum.


Hi,

Just had BT Infinity 2 installed on a brand new phone line, BT estimated 56 down and 20 up

Not fantastic, so possibly not too close to the cabinet (or the first in the area to be connected and/or new phone line so no historical data)?

Quote
In reality i have the following stats:

Attainable rate:    50044 down       16368 up
SNR margin:         9.8 down           9.6 up
Line att:              0 down             0 up
Output power:      12.8 down         6.3 up

Actual Line rate:   39999 down       10000 up

Here are my questions :)


Quote
1,  Why is my actual profile stuck at 39999  and 10000 up ?

I THINK that with Infinity 2, you are first provisioned on the 40/10 service (or whatever they call it) & within a day or two get switched to the 80 20 service.
I'm not with BT for my FTTC service, so I'm not 100% sure about that.


Quote
2,  Is the SNR quite high, i thought it used to stick around the 6db mark, which would give me better attainable rates ?

No, its good actually. It means you have SOME spare margin to achieve better than 40/10 if/when BT uncap your connection speeds.
It looks like 50/16 will be around the very best you are likely to see though.

Quote
3, Been connected for 15mins and done 2 speed tests and look at the error count:

CRC Errors:     100 down     0 up
FEC Errors:      9 down        9 up
HEC Errors:      32 down      0 up

Should i be getting that many errors?

They may just be errors encountered during the initial connection stages.

I have seen connections with zero errors for months at a time.

On the other hand I have seen stable connections with higher error counts.

As your attainable rate is quite a bit below 80/20, it suggests your connection is either far enough away from the cabinet or it experiences some "noise", so if it's not already turned on, Interleaving will show at least some corrected errors.

The error reporting doesn't seem quite right in the Huawei HG612 modem's GUI.
More detalied/accurate data can be obtained either from telnet sessions using xdslcmd info --pbParams and xdslcmd info --stats or automated & graphically plotted using the Windows and/or Linux scripts.

My connection is now stable.
You can see from the attached graphs when it was repaired.
Error counts are still not zero though.

Quote
Thanks for your help in advance.

p.s. the BTO modem is hacked.

We could see that from the stats you have provided. ;)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 01:32:16 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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newport258

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Re: New FTTC install - errors on line
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2012, 01:48:32 PM »

Hi,

thanks for the detailed reply.
I have now installed the graphing scripts

Quote
I THINK that with Infinity 2, you are first provisioned on the 40/10 service (or whatever they call it) & within a day or two get switched to the 80 20 service.
I'm not with BT for my FTTC service, so I'm not 100% sure about that.

This is a house move, the previous property had a new line and infinity 2 installed from scratch and straight away i could get 56mb down and 16mb upload.

Quote
Not fantastic, so possibly not too close to the cabinet (or the first in the area to be connected and/or new phone line so no historical data)?

Spoke to the engineer, and he told me the route it takes, so from using google it has worked out a line length of 485m which includes allowance for up and over pole etc..

One thing i did notice is that he did not use his tester on the fibre part of the install, only on the main line in the phone socket to confirm phone was working. With regards to the fibre he just plugged modem in and my apple airport and told me to check it worked, which it did.
He could not give me answers on what rate i connect at.

Now this leads me to my next theory, all the problems sky customers are having on stuck profiles. My girlfriend had sky fibre installed, the installer did not use his tester at all, just plugged in modem, checked green light and off he went. That modem syncs at 39999 and 10000 but profile is stuck at 24mb.
Seeing as my profile appears to be 40/10 could this be a conclusion that if the BTO tester is not used then the cap is not removed?

Cheers,

Jon
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: New FTTC install - errors on line
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2012, 04:19:00 PM »

I have now installed the graphing scripts

You won't have sufficient ongoing data yet, so could you attach your Current_Stats graphs for us to have a look at?

Quote
This is a house move, the previous property had a new line and infinity 2 installed from scratch and straight away i could get 56mb down and 16mb upload.

I can't see the relevance of the previous property. So, what is the best speed you have achieved at the current (new) house?

Quote
Spoke to the engineer, and he told me the route it takes, so from using google it has worked out a line length of 485m which includes allowance for up and over pole etc..

Did the engineer mention aluminium cabling?
Your estimated speed & attainable rates look quite low for only 485m.

Quote
One thing i did notice is that he did not use his tester on the fibre part of the install, only on the main line in the phone socket to confirm phone was working. With regards to the fibre he just plugged modem in and my apple airport and told me to check it worked, which it did.
He could not give me answers on what rate i connect at.

Could not, or would not?

Quote
Now this leads me to my next theory, all the problems sky customers are having on stuck profiles. My girlfriend had sky fibre installed, the installer did not use his tester at all, just plugged in modem, checked green light and off he went. That modem syncs at 39999 and 10000 but profile is stuck at 24mb.
Seeing as my profile appears to be 40/10 could this be a conclusion that if the BTO tester is not used then the cap is not removed?

I think the best thing would be for you to post some connection stats/graphs, forget Sky as it is not really relevant to your Infinity connection & possibly ask BT when you will be seeing more than 40/10 speeds.

What does the BT test report for your IP Profile?
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newport258

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Re: New FTTC install - errors on line
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2012, 06:06:32 PM »

Quote
I can't see the relevance of the previous property. So, what is the best speed you have achieved at the current (new) house?

Sorry that was in relation to that you thought the 80/20 profile came into effect 24 hours after installation.

Currently getting about 4.5MB/sec on usenet  via wired

Here are my stats:

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Black Sheep

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Re: New FTTC install - errors on line
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 06:06:48 PM »

Hi,

thanks for the detailed reply.
I have now installed the graphing scripts

Quote
I THINK that with Infinity 2, you are first provisioned on the 40/10 service (or whatever they call it) & within a day or two get switched to the 80 20 service.
I'm not with BT for my FTTC service, so I'm not 100% sure about that.

This is a house move, the previous property had a new line and infinity 2 installed from scratch and straight away i could get 56mb down and 16mb upload.

Quote
Not fantastic, so possibly not too close to the cabinet (or the first in the area to be connected and/or new phone line so no historical data)?

Spoke to the engineer, and he told me the route it takes, so from using google it has worked out a line length of 485m which includes allowance for up and over pole etc..

One thing i did notice is that he did not use his tester on the fibre part of the install, only on the main line in the phone socket to confirm phone was working. With regards to the fibre he just plugged modem in and my apple airport and told me to check it worked, which it did.
He could not give me answers on what rate i connect at.

Now this leads me to my next theory, all the problems sky customers are having on stuck profiles. My girlfriend had sky fibre installed, the installer did not use his tester at all, just plugged in modem, checked green light and off he went. That modem syncs at 39999 and 10000 but profile is stuck at 24mb.
Seeing as my profile appears to be 40/10 could this be a conclusion that if the BTO tester is not used then the cap is not removed?

Cheers,

Jon

My experience when I'm installing, is that if you are on Infinity 2, you get the 80/20 product instantly.

Regarding not using the testers ?? He most certainly wouldn't use one at the main socket to test the telephony side of the circuit ?? He would just use his 'Tapper' (Glorified telephone). I think he would have been testing the actual speeds at the main socket, as we are expected to do. Also, he may have been performing a Pair Quality Test, again .... this is mandatory. 

He should have completed an Eclipse Test right at the very end of the installation, this will perform 2 tests ..... 1)The mettallic path facility (in other words, the wires from the Exchange to your house), and 2) The DS and US synch speeds. Both tests come back to the engineer in the form of SMS text messages. These text messages basically confirm the PQT tests and DSL speed tests performed by the engineers tester.

We do have a lot of ex MoD lads working for us, and they are being lumbered with extreme ammounts of FTTC work. They dont have time to breathe on a normal day. :'( They do have to complete the mandatory tests though.
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Black Sheep

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Re: New FTTC install - errors on line
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2012, 06:08:19 PM »

PS ..... forgot to add, by not performing any of the tests, this will not 'cap' the line or fail to remove a 'cap'. They are just simple tests.
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newport258

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Re: New FTTC install - errors on line
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 06:23:47 PM »

PS ..... forgot to add, by not performing any of the tests, this will not 'cap' the line or fail to remove a 'cap'. They are just simple tests.

Thanks for the clarification.

He did do some line tests and he was getting a load of text messages.

Just wondering if i should ring up BT and check why i am stuck on 10mb upload
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: New FTTC install - errors on line
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2012, 09:52:39 PM »

You are definitely currently capped at 39999Kbps & 10000Kbps.

Your SNRM values suggest you can do a little better than that as do your attenuation & Max (Attainable) Rate.

As requested earlier, what does the BT test report for your IP Profile? Copy & paste the text rather than typing it manually.

You do seem to have a fairly "noisy" line (QLN graph), possibly hence the not so fantastic speeds.

 
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newport258

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Re: New FTTC install - errors on line
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2012, 09:58:40 PM »

Quote
As requested earlier, what does the BT test report for your IP Profile? Copy & paste the text rather than typing it manually.

Only just now been able to do it as the order had not completed on BT systems.

Download speedachieved during the test was - 36.81 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 12 Mbps-38.72 Mbps .
IP Profile for your line is - 38.72 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 8.42Mbps
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 10 Mbps
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newport258

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Re: New FTTC install - errors on line
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 10:05:50 PM »

I just logged into BT and did a fault check on the line and it has come back to say there is a possible fault near or in the customers property.

Quote
It looks like the problem is in or near to your home, and we'll need to contact you before sending an engineer. We will be in touch with you on the details you have provided us with.

We should be in touch within 24 hours.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: New FTTC install - errors on line
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2012, 11:07:08 PM »

I think you need to get on to BT.

The 10Mb upstream IP Profile confirms that you are not yet on the 80/20 service.

On the 80/20 service I think the US IP profile is ALWAYs 20Mb, although the DS IP Profile does change at every modem reboot (not "on the fly" resync) and/or every router reconnection.

Also the 38.72 Mbps is the usual 96.79% of Sync speed.

So you don't need to actually tell BT that you have an unlocked modem as their own speed test has sufficient evidence that you are still on the 40/10 service.

I couldn't quite work out how new this connection is from your previous posts.
If it is only a day or so since it was installed, I think BT make you wait the ficticious 10 days training period before they will actually listen to you anyway.

Let's hope that if there is a fault, it is near & not actually in your property, otherwise you could end up being charged for an engineer's visit.
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