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Author Topic: Output power (dBm)  (Read 40830 times)

snadge

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2012, 09:57:37 PM »

I see... ah well, Im sure it will all come too light soon when we (sky users) all start getting 'stuck' in low power mode and they get 48,000 complaints in haha , but I dont see it active on my line, I would have thought my graphs (which log every 1 minute) would show reduced output power when idle and it does not, all through night it stays on 19dBm , I dont know if DLM is turned off on my line, our "source" told me that for sky to over=ride DLM and put you onto a manual profile it actually turns off DLM on the line????  I have seen the Interleaving Depth increase without it then..
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BritBrat

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2012, 07:49:48 AM »


hmmm... I wonder if we could get some sky users to kill all background programs and wait for 127 seconds and ping the router and see if its in L2 mode?   ive never noticed it?  my ongoing graphs show the output power as 19dBm..even through the night?


Could you explain that in more detail as I am on Sky LLU and here are my router stats:

Code: [Select]
DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode ADSL2+
Upstream 1051
Downstream 8629
SNR Margin(Upstream) 7.7
SNR Margin(Downstream) 8.3
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 19.5
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 33.0


Just noticed from those stats that my download speed it lower than normal.


EDIT:

Just turned off a few protocols and router reconnected with a higher speed:

Code: [Select]
DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode ADSL2+
Upstream 1065
Downstream 10027
SNR Margin(Upstream) 7.9
SNR Margin(Downstream) 7.1
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 19.6
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 33.0

« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 08:20:42 AM by BritBrat »
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c6em

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2012, 08:13:57 AM »


See this thread on the Plusnet forums for an example of what happens when a customer has their line activated for L2 mode by accident.
In this case rather than the entire exchange being activated - it was just one line, so we are just seeing the effect on their line of the syncs/SNR margin varying wildly.  We are not seeing any cross talk effects (if there are any) from other adjacent lines to theirs also hopping in/out of L2 mode.

http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,105008.0.html
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snadge

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2012, 09:59:04 AM »


hmmm... I wonder if we could get some sky users to kill all background programs and wait for 127 seconds and ping the router and see if its in L2 mode?   ive never noticed it?  my ongoing graphs show the output power as 19dBm..even through the night?


Could you explain that in more detail as I am on Sky LLU and here are my router stats:

naah thats just normal power state, dunno what protocols you turned off to get higher sync rate though?  possibly noise is reduced allowing you too sync a bit higher because your SNRM was 8.3db before- kill all background and foreground tasks so nothing is using the web, wait a few minutes with DMT Open and fire off this command in one of DMT's user queries box's
adslctl info --stats
5th line down there is:
Link Power State: L0
if its L0 then your in normal mode, if its L2 then its in power saving mode, this power saving mode (well, BT's version) reduces sync speed to 128k or something like that, and output power right down after 127 seconds of none-to-low use (128Kbps or less traffic), then when you use it again its supposed to kick back up to full sync speed...although the link that c6em supplys show it shifting someones connection between 6Mb / 3db SNRM (full) and 3Mb / 15db SNRM (Low Power) , Im sure I read it was 128k it lowers it too, obviously not, maybe it reduces power until you have 15db SNRM..??? I dunno...black sheep may be able to shed some light here?

Iam sure that sky's PMM is just a module that assia have that claims to save money on energy costs overall, like "assia's version" of something thats always been around and in use for DSL, I havent seen this L2 mode implemented on sky yet,  it doesnt seem to have any L2 sleep state on it like this cool broadband, well, sky dont use it (yet) if it does...

here are my power graphs & sync rate for last 9 hours duriing the night:
as you can see 19dBm and 11Mb all night, surely if sky had this sleep mode it would show on that, my sync rate is the same


« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 11:42:49 AM by snadge »
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kitz

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2012, 10:59:44 AM »

>> surely if sky had this sleep mode it would show on that, my sync rate is the same
>> Link Power State: L0
>> if its L0 then your in normal mode, if its L2 then its in power saving mode

You are quite correct - Id expect it to show a reduction, therefore you arent.
As mentioned above, Im not in a position to confirm if Sky are or not... but yes querying the router should give you the router power state.

Yet our mutual source said they were playing with it earlier in the year and that he had seen it on his Sky line ??
So I dunno whats going on.
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snadge

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2012, 11:41:30 AM »


Yet our mutual source said they were playing with it earlier in the year and that he had seen it on his Sky line ??
So I dunno whats going on.

Was he not on about when he got connected and was monitoring the power levels during his 10 day training? he mentioned to me that it he'd seen power levels adjusting and acting rather oddly during his line training? - he said that the PMM should be turned off during line training because its affecting the training... dunno, perhaps he could clarify, maybe you could ask him? - I think PMM is just assia's own power management feature, Iam not aware of any L2 mode it invokes that reduces users sync rates by quite a bit when traffic is low, there doesnt appear to be anything on sky's forums about it, I would expect to see users on there with it "complaining"... I will ask on sky forum and see if they can shed any light on it, if I speak to Stanley or Liam at sky I will ask them if they can clarify this :)

check it here:
http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Broadband-Speed/is-L2-Sleep-Mode-Green-Broadband-active-on-sky/m-p/439239/message-uid/439239#U439239
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 11:58:53 AM by snadge »
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snadge

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2012, 01:26:44 PM »

..it seems my pst has been removed from the forum , but can still be accessed by those that have the link...  >:D - something they want to hide?

it may be cos i mention ASSIA and PMM - so I have reposted without
http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Broadband-Speed/is-Green-Broadband-sleep-mode-active-on-sky-EDITED/m-p/439305/message-uid/439305#U439305
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 01:47:15 PM by snadge »
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snadge

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2012, 05:57:06 PM »

ok..had a reply and my original post mysteriously re-appeared???  as if it was removed temporarily for some reason?

anyway, they say
Thanks for posting about this, we're not aware of any plans at present to introduce anything like this onto our network and our equipment at exchanges.

so..who knows? but it doesnt look like sky's PMM is being used in similar routine as BT's Cool Broadband
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kitz

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2012, 09:46:21 PM »

Thanks snadge..  I cant access the first but I can the 2nd.   :)
When I get more time, I shall try do some serious digging sometime to see what the ASSIA PPM actually is, because from the gumph I dont think its the 'normal' power module and there is something different about it..  I just dont know what it is yer..   
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snadge

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #69 on: May 25, 2012, 09:54:33 PM »

yep, I think its just assia's version of typical DSL power management and it may or may not be suprerior to others...

I deleted the first topic when it reappeared because the 2nd one had an answer - the first one mentioned ASSIA and PMM, I know they can be a bit touchy aobut revealing the "innards" of their systems, because they would not reveal them to me via email once haha.,  when I asked about PMM, saying its against rules to reveal the inner workings of skys systems...which is fair enough  8)
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Black Sheep

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2012, 07:33:07 AM »

Well, as of today ALL L2 Power Saving Mode, should have been switched off. Shame, as I've had some easy faults.  ;) ;D ;D
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kitz

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2012, 01:00:10 PM »

Well, as of today ALL L2 Power Saving Mode, should have been switched off. Shame, as I've had some easy faults.  ;) ;D ;D

Thanks for that info BS.   I take it that it wasnt much of a success then..  I wonder if they will try and develop it further in the future?
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snadge

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2012, 01:23:09 PM »

Well, as of today ALL L2 Power Saving Mode, should have been switched off. Shame, as I've had some easy faults.  ;) ;D ;D

was this active up and down the country? (I wonder if my neighbour was affected as he has been moaning about slow/problematic BT connection recently)

have they abandoned the idea altogether?

cheers
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 01:27:58 PM by snadge »
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Black Sheep

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Re: Output power (dBm)
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2012, 03:23:57 PM »

Ha ha, Kitz .... I wouldn't say it was one of our better success stories. I've no other info to hand as yet, but I would imagine the 'boffs' will be working away until they get a fix on this?? There's a lot of money to be saved to just let it be.

Snadge, yes, it was implemented nationwide but it has nothing to do with slow speeds. The issue was loss of PPP Sessions on business routers. Not synch, nor speed ........ just the IP Address.
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