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Author Topic: bricked my new Netgear DG834N with first upgrade to DGteam 1022...help!!  (Read 26505 times)

burakkucat

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<snip>
iam now stuck trying to use easybcd to create a dualboot MBR with xp / Win7 - ive restored the win7 mbr and when i add xp it says i need to download NTDETECT.COM and NTLDR and must put them in root of win7 partition do i?

I hope that question isn't directed to me . . .  :o  . . . You have read my signature block, haven't you?  ::)

One of the other regulars will eventually be along and advise, accordingly.  :)
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snadge

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@ B'Kat - lol , all sorted now... :)

@ asbokid - the neighbour who is on BTw had perfect SNR along the band, this would reflect the QLN stats wouldnt it? - the AM spikes were just visible on the other SVBN neighbour but she had so much extra noise on line that it lowered all SNR right down, but the tips of those AM spikes were there none-the-less

there is an old couple who live in other estate behind me whom i do some work for, they joined sky in December last year so should be on SVBN, Iam going to ask them if I acn go over and record some stats

I will have to go back to the SKY/BTw users house at end of my row to get stats again as i accidentally overwrote hers with the SVBN neighbours screenshot of DMT, but it was perfectly clean and healthy , I also check a neighbours line on BT and they have perfect SNR too, no AM spikes.. I have to admit those AM spikes where there when I was with o2 but BARELY affecting it at all and i still got 18Mb, well, youve seen that on other screenshots, see below my o2 one (the Annex B thing is a bug of the version that runs on my old laptop for some reason it displays even my sky one like an Annex B connection? it is latest version too so must be something on the laptop causing it)

its as if there so much more noise on the line its lowering the SNR and making the AM spikes more prominent, maybe if the noise was removed those AM spikes would be same as they were before liek on my o2 sats - see below that image for the SVBN neighbour and below that one for the BT neighbour (these are 2 and 3 dorrs down)

my stats:


other SKY SVBN neighbour 2 doors down, you can see tips of AM noise spikes in same places, 3 of em


neighbour on BT 3 doors down, this guy had long extension cables and multiple sockets so possible local noise in home
but as you can see his line looks ok if it was seen to




as you can see those two live next door too each other, the BT stats could be made much better as his SNRM is high, but hers (SVBN) are terrible..!!! and the tips of those AM radio spikes are visible on hers
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 11:37:54 AM by snadge »
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asbokid

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@ B'Kat - lol , all sorted now... :)

@ asbokid - the neighbour who is on BTw had perfect SNR along the band, this would reflect the QLN stats wouldnt it? - the AM spikes were just visible on the other SVBN neighbour but she had so much extra noise on line that it lowered all SNR right down, but the tips of those AM spikes were there none-the-less

there is an old couple who live in other estate behind me whom i do some work for, they joined sky in December last year so should be on SVBN, Iam going to ask them if I acn go over and record some stats

I will have to go back to the SKY/BTw users house at end of my row to get stats again as i accidentally overwrote hers with the SVBN neighbours screenshot of DMT, but it was perfectly clean and healthy , I also check a neighbours line on BT and they have perfect SNR too, no AM spikes.. I have to admit those AM spikes where there when I was with o2 but BARELY affecting it at all and i still got 18Mb, well, youve seen that on other screenshots, see below my o2 one (the Annex B thing is a bug of the version that runs on my old laptop for some reason it displays even my sky one like an Annex B connection? it is latest version too so must be something on the laptop causing it)

its as if there so much more noise on the line its lowering the SNR and making the AM spikes more prominent, maybe if the noise was removed those AM spikes would be same as they were before liek on my o2 sats - see below that image for the SVBN neighbour and below that one for the BT neighbour (these are 2 and 3 dorrs down)

my stats:


other SKY SVBN neighbour 2 doors down, you can see tips of AM noise spikes in same places, 3 of em


neighbour on BT 3 doors down, this guy had long extension cables and multiple sockets so possible local noise in home
but as you can see his line looks ok if it was seen to



as you can see those two live next door too each other, the BT stats could be made much better as his SNRM is high, but hers (SVBN) are terrible..!!! and the tips of those AM radio spikes are visible on hers

Hi, snadge,

Thanks for posting these.  DMT is not so good, though.  The RCOs (Relative Capacity Occupation) levels are not correct.. The data throughput rate cannot exceed the maximum attainable rate.

Two doors down have got a dreadful service! As you point out, the line attenuation is fairly normal, yet the SNR levels are very low, so it looks like the cause of their poor bit loading is background line noise, but of a different type to your own..   It would appear to be a broad spectrum of noise, whereas you've got narrowband ingress from AM broadcast radio.

I really can't think of any useful suggestions.  Maybe try Bald_Eagle's scripts which work very well indeed for VDSL2, to obtain the key line data statistics.  The scripts would need a little tweaking for ADSL2+, but not a lot (as the lovely Debbie McGee might say).

cheers, a
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snadge

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which scripts are those? how do I use them?

how does the RCO affect the SNR graphs? I dont really look at RCO and just examine the SNR Spectrum.

I know I have those AM noise spikes... but do you think its possible its something to do with my line aswell as the MSAN?  to me it looks like there are two issues, when you compare my o2/BE stats with my SKY ones the AM Noise spikes are still present, but its as if there is extra noise on the line weakening the SNR along the spectrum and because of this its making those AM noise spikes more prominent? - or am i wrong in thinking this? - you could say Iam unlucky and the noise is getting into my line because off the landscape, but, the neighbour who is on BT and the one on sky/BTw is NOT affected...  it could well be the o2/BE MSAN was also affected a bit, just not as much as sky MSAN, it could be unlucky lay of the land at the exchange and dependant on where the MSAN is located within the exchange to how much it is affected?

I dunno its just hard to say... I mean if it were the actual phone line then we would all be affected, very likely anyway, yes?, so it must be at exchange...
BT Broadband Dslam - NOT AFFECTED
BT wholesale PSTN - NOT AFFECTED
o2/BE Broadband MSAN - SLIGHTLY AFFECTED
SKY Broadband MSAN - cant say as didnt check, but did get 18Mb speed on this, if neighbour on sky/BTw is on this then its fine.
SKY Broadband DSLAM - unknown.
SKY Voice & Broadband MSAN - BADLY AFFECTED

really, I need to go back to my neighbours houses who are with sky and pull that stats from the router myself and save them, also I need to test the SKY/BTw customer connection to see if she is on a sky DSLAM or broadband only MSAN.

oh BTW, when it pee'd down heavily all night last week my SNR across the upper scale of spectrum got better and I was able to get almost 3Mb more out of my line, when it dried up it went back down... I though it was just cos it was 4am and lines (Xtalk) was quiet..so i tried again other night when dry and could not get same results...so would appear rain had some bearing on it? whats that mean? - and when it rained I noticed lots of constantly changing 'jagged' spikes along the SNR which too me would indicate increase in noise activity (lots of bit-swapping?)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 02:28:31 PM by snadge »
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asbokid

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Hi snadge, lots of questions there, nothing but suggestions, though..

which scripts are those? how do I use them?

Bald_Eagle (Paul) was/is working on them recently, but the original scripts are here.. There are several dependent packages, but Paul documents them all.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6wW18mYskvBMTEyNzk2MTQtNWEyNC00NTBlLWFiMjYtNTg0MDdhMTBlNDdk

By running the same script tool and by hooking the same modem to each of your neighbours' lines you would be well-placed to compare like with like.

Quote
how does the RCO affect the SNR graphs? I dont really look at RCO and just examine the SNR Spectrum.

It doesn't affect it, but it does suggest that DMT is 'scraping' incorrectly.  As such, the other data are suspect.. Maybe the max attainable rate is being scraped correctly but the actual data rate is being scraped wrongly?  Since the RCO is wrong, one of both of those data rates is wrong, too.

Quote
I know I have those AM noise spikes... but do you think its possible its something to do with my line as well as the MSAN?

It's possible. If your SKY-LLU neighbour whose line is in the same cable bundles from pole to PCP to exchange where he is served by the same MSAN doesn't have the same problem - or not to the same degree -  that would strongly suggest that your line has a fault.

Quote
to me it looks like there are two issues, when you compare my o2/BE stats with my SKY ones the AM Noise spikes are still present, but its as if there is extra noise on the line weakening the SNR along the spectrum and because of this its making those AM noise spikes more prominent?

Or... the linecard in the Sky DSLAM is not as efficient as the o2/BE linecard was at modulating the DSL signal, for whatever reason.

Quote
- or am i wrong in thinking this? - you could say I am unlucky and the noise is getting into my line because of the landscape, but, the neighbour who is on BT and the one on sky/BTw is NOT affected...

Maybe ditch DMT. With Paul's scripts, obtain the same datasets from each line using the same modem and then multi-plot that line data on the same graphs, to aid comparison.

Quote
it could well be the o2/BE MSAN was also affected a bit, just not as much as sky MSAN, it could be unlucky lay of the land at the exchange and dependant on where the MSAN is located within the exchange to how much it is affected?

I dunno its just hard to say... I mean if it were the actual phone line then we would all be affected, very likely anyway, yes?, so it must be at exchange...
BT Broadband Dslam - NOT AFFECTED
BT wholesale PSTN - NOT AFFECTED
o2/BE Broadband MSAN - SLIGHTLY AFFECTED
SKY Broadband MSAN - cant say as didnt check, but did get 18Mb speed on this, if neighbour on sky/BTw is on this then its fine.
SKY Broadband DSLAM - unknown.
SKY Voice & Broadband MSAN - BADLY AFFECTED

Sky's exchange equipment -primarily the subscriber linecard in the DSLAM - may just be inferior to the kit used by O2/Be.  Only a suggestion.. there's no proof of that.

A poor analogy but think of a vinyl turntable.  Some pickup coils are much better than others at modulating an electrical signal that is then fed to the amp circuits.  And some amps are more efficient and accurate at amplifying that signal that is then fed to the speaker coils.

In the case of Central Office (CO) DSL equipment, the efficiency and accuracy of the signal modulation is determined, in part, in software.  Older linecard chipsets and older firmware in the DSLAM controllers are generally inferior to newer equipment.  There is also the issue of compatibility. It shouldn't happen since xDSL is clearly defined in international standards, but some CO DSL chipsets exhibit better performance with CPE chipsets from the same manufacturers.

Quote
really, I need to go back to my neighbours' houses who are with sky and pull that stats from the router myself and save them, also I need to test the SKY/BTw customer connection to see if she is on a sky DSLAM or broadband only MSAN.

That's exactly what I would do..  You're well placed with neighbours who will grant you access.  Be sure to use the same modem for the tests on each line, though.

Quote
oh BTW, when it pee'd down heavily all night last week my SNR across the upper scale of spectrum got better and I was able to get almost 3Mb more out of my line, when it dried up it went back down... I though it was just cos it was 4am and lines (Xtalk) was quiet..so i tried again other night when dry and could not get same results...so would appear rain had some bearing on it? whats that mean?

If it were possible, you would have to study each splice point on your pair at a molecular level. The study would seek to discover a possible mechanism for the improvement in the attainable data rate during periods of heavy rain.  In practice you just can't do that, though.  Physically examining a splice point would interfere with it.

If the rain is implicated, it might only have an indirect relationship to the increase in line rate.   Perhaps the weight of the rain droplets on a pole-strung cable serves to pull the cable in such a way that a poor joint is electrically improved? Or maybe the improvement to the line sync rate is due not to the rain itself but to the increased humidity that accompanies it?  Just a couple of possibilities.

There are the makings of a scientific project here.

Maybe meteorological data could be harvested from your local weather station. That data would not only include the local rainfall levels but also the relative humidity, barometric pressure, temperature, hours of sunlight, and perhaps even the levels of solar activity.

It's been said before: the line data would best be stored in an SQL relational database where complex queries could be used to discover (or disprove) suspected correlations with the weather conditions.

cheers, a
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 06:11:58 PM by asbokid »
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snadge

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@ ASBOKID - shame I cant remember what night the rain was on...  Paul is helping me with GNU-Plot on another thread with scripts etc (showing me how to use it and providing scripts) - once I have got the hang of it I will ask the neighbours if I can retest their lines (although I could pull the stats in meantime) , I also have a 3rd sky customer who should be on SVBN but does not live in same street or even in my estate, but about 7 mins walk away behind us (away from exchange), Iam going to go around there and pull stats from their lines.

Now I will be using my Netgear DG834GT , do you think I should use the DGteam 1018 firmware thats on it? or flash it back to Netgear firmware? do you think it affects stats at all depending on which firmware is installed>?

thanks again for all your help, I really cant thank you enough.
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roseway

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Quote
Now I will be using my Netgear DG834GT , do you think I should use the DGteam 1018 firmware thats on it? or flash it back to Netgear firmware? do you think it affects stats at all depending on which firmware is installed>?

DGTeam didn't write their own ADSL drivers, they used the Netgear binary drivers. However there were different versions of the DGTeam firmware, containing different versions of the Netgear driver, so the answer to your question depends in part on which version is currently installed in your DG834GT. From memory, the version with 023o in the filename is the one containing the same driver as the latest Netgear firmware. The one containing 026 was an experimental driver.
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  Eric

HPsauce

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Just confirming what Roseway said about ADSL drivers.
Unless you actually NEED the additional functionality of DGTeam the latest Netgear firmware (1.03.23?) is just as good.
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snadge

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Quote
Now I will be using my Netgear DG834GT , do you think I should use the DGteam 1018 firmware thats on it? or flash it back to Netgear firmware? do you think it affects stats at all depending on which firmware is installed>?

DGTeam didn't write their own ADSL drivers, they used the Netgear binary drivers. However there were different versions of the DGTeam firmware, containing different versions of the Netgear driver, so the answer to your question depends in part on which version is currently installed in your DG834GT. From memory, the version with 023o in the filename is the one containing the same driver as the latest Netgear firmware. The one containing 026 was an experimental driver.

thanks, i think it was 23o as it advised that one to be best on DGteam website

I think I will flash it back to netgear using XP flash util just for good measure for the purpose of testing :)
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HPsauce

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All my DG834GT's use 23o and that's across a selection of DGTeam versions.
(current live is actually 0848...)
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Justino

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Re: bricked my new Netgear DG834N with first upgrade to DGteam 1022...help!!
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2012, 02:14:08 PM »

I too have bricked my DG834n trying to upgrade to the latest DGTeam firmware, but have not had the smae success as the OP in recovering.

Foolishly I did this through the web GUI – all seemed well during the process, but once complete no connection could be made with the Router.

No worries i thought, I will run the recovery utility. I ran this on my Win 7 machine, but it wouldn’t run. Realising it needed XP I tried to run in compatibility mode with no luck, so i tried to run in an XP VM, again no luck.

At this stage i dug out my old XP laptop and hooked it up to the Router. I ran the utility as instructed, it found the network card, then found the router, and commenced the upgrade. However it stuck at 0% ‘erasing something or other’ not moving. I tried again, same thing. On a 3rd attempt the next night, it couldn’t find the Router in Device Lists.

So I went down the nftp recovery route, first downloading ubuntu, following the instructions to run off a usb, running in super user etc. However it just gets stuck at ‘sending....to eth0’. I then downloaded Puppy Linux and followed the instructions to the letter on the DGTeam site, same result.

My question is, what am i doing wrong, or is my Router completely bricked and only useful as a door stop?
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burakkucat

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Re: bricked my new Netgear DG834N with first upgrade to DGteam 1022...help!!
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2012, 06:13:12 PM »

Welcome to the Kitz fora, Justino.

In my opinion, the modem/router could probably be recovered but it reads as if a "lower level" of recovery may now be necessary. I'm thinking about jtag . . .

I guess Asbokid may be the one to comment?  :-\
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asbokid

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Re: bricked my new Netgear DG834N with first upgrade to DGteam 1022...help!!
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2012, 06:33:32 PM »

Sorry, I don't know anything about the Netgear DG834N.  This man, Platon Scheblykin, does though [1]    Platon Scheblykin, amazing name!

Platon Scheblykin identifies both the UART and JTAG ports on the PCB. (See J10 and J1 in Platon Scheblykin's photos).  So you should be okay recovering it, if 'worse comes to the worst' and it does turn out to be professionally bricked.

Can understand your concerns. It's an expensive router.  Hope you paid a bit less than the RRP price (£119)?

Good luck  :)

cheers, a

[1] http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/networking/print/netgear-dg834n.html
[2] http://www.amazon.co.uk/Netgear-DG834N-RangeMax-Wireless-Router/dp/B000G3JTV2
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 06:37:27 PM by asbokid »
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Justino

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Re: bricked my new Netgear DG834N with first upgrade to DGteam 1022...help!!
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2012, 11:36:21 AM »

Thanks for the help guys. I probably did pay around that figure, but it has been in use for a few years now. I should have left well alone on th basis if it aint broken don't fix it, but I like modding, so wanted to put the DGTeam firmware on top play around with the SNR figure.

Not sure i want to go to the trouble of creating a circuit board to access, learning Ubuntu was a steep enough curve for me. I just wondered if I was doing something silly that was resulting in the Router not being seen by the various recovery methods. Its odd it was seen onthe first attempts by the XP machine, but since hasn't shown in the device list.

What is the best XP to use for the Netgear Recovery program, is it SP2, or does it not matter, or as the nftp prog won't see the Router, then non of the software methods will work. Something is nagging me that maybe when I load Ubuntu etc, I may have a setting that is incorrect stopping the network card communicating with the Router??
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Justino

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Re: bricked my new Netgear DG834N with first upgrade to DGteam 1022...help!!
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2012, 11:56:00 AM »

If I did go down this route, is the jtag the best one to get to cover most eventualities? My Old laptop has a parallel port, so could hook that up the jtag connector. What software is needed and how do you upload the firmware through the jtag?
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