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Author Topic: Cable Pairs - A Question  (Read 41314 times)

burakkucat

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2012, 04:20:42 PM »

 :doh:  D'oh!
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2012, 05:31:27 PM »

Snadge,

Pitch a tent and get your mashmallows out this is going to be a long one lol.

Gary
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2012, 05:36:40 PM »

ive given up

is this fixed (2 hours stats)

Total time = 2hours 43min 17sec
SF  = 516330   CRC = 973
LOS = 2   LOF = 18   ES = 39

getn sticky unresponsive pages at times

can the 2504N (sky firmware) dish out error stats?

oh and a neighbour on sky has same issues too, phone issues but broadband still works (although they dunno or care about speed) think they may have been on same cable, DP & DUCT
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 06:06:00 PM by snadge »
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2012, 06:24:45 PM »

....also, when  he left we were getting 13,700k sync (2Mb increase) - even between reboots, I could get it too 16Mb with 3db SNRM so was pleased a bit - then - she uses phone and its now back down to 11Mb...even between reboots... how is that possible?  it was fine until she called out?
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2012, 07:24:40 PM »

engineer no.6 (special noisey lines engineer) coming tomoz afternoon...lol... he hinted that they may send another Bband one out again if needs be but has to come a point when they stop spending money...fair do's...  we had quite a laugh on phone actually...

I said to BT Engineer no.5 today that "by time all this is done and finished, I will know more about the lines in this street than BT" and the guy said "aye you can be the consultant...just send them too no.1 and he will give you a background on it" he he he
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2012, 02:36:58 PM »

well, noisey line engineer cant do owt cos he is just for crackling noise on line... I need a broadband specialist he says and agrees that lad yesterday should of done both jobs....

he is gunna change my e-side wiring to see if that helps but Iam not confident tho...

EDIT: yup, it has not changed anything , changed the E-side pair from cab to exchange (same cable different pair) and results are exactly same, he did say he found a small problem down that end but its now removed..however my noise issue (broadband noise problems, not phone 'audible' noise) remains

I will bounce it back to sky, he did say that when he calls me on Monday they will decide then whether or not they will send another broadband engineer, so there is a glimmer of hope yet..but extremely unlikely

the really annoying thing is , after the engineer finished yesterday we got 13.7Mb on 7db..I was able to push that to 16Mb with little error impact...I was happy with that, it stayed even between reboots as I messed with it - then she used the phone one hour later and the speed dropped back to 11Mb after she hung up..   thats when I emailed sky about it - so i had a potentially 14-16Mb line, now Im back to 11-13Mb again...argghh!!

Its starting to affect my health too, yesterday the engineer said that I need to be carefull as I may get charged (and he is right) , however, since he said that I have been worried sick and its causing me anxiety making me feel unwell, if only it would go back up to 13.7Mb again I would be happyso I could tweak it to 16Mb, christ I had 13Mb on a 39db line, I cant even get 12Mb on a 26db line..says a lot doesnt it!

looks like Im just gunna have to absorb the loss in speed - sky have bent over backwards to help, cant fault them (apart from a couple of comms hiccups), the rep said there has to come a point when they have to stop spending money on it because they wont recuperate it, however, all these visits have been faulty line visits and costs should be absorbed by BTo which is what the engineer said, sky told me they were charged £300 for yesterdays visit....hmmm....

dont BTo engineers have tools that show/tell them the AM noise on the line and help locate it?  the JDSU only seems to show max attainable rates INCLUSIVE of the noise on the line - sky has a tool that says there is high am noise on the line, possible grounding fault, my router shows me the loss of SNR over the frequencies... surely BTo have something that says "yes, there is AM noise on this run of cable" and they can test various sections of cable down to and into the exchange? ...surely?  sky rep said they did but the BB engineer just fixed the HR Fault and fled with excuses (pressure from boss) when he was supposed to do BOTH jobs (Fix HR Fault and Diagnose AM Noise), he said he couldnt coax anymore speed out of the line but he hadnt even tried too?? he was going of the JDSU max attain rate which is inclusive of the noise on the line....im starting to wonder if its the MSAN (phone port) absorbing the rein..? as its been since the switch over this has happened, I have been put into another line card but still the same...i dunno if that means the phone was moved too, probably not, so the phone could still be in same card and port??? could it??  I may ask my neighbour who is also on sky if i can use my GT to scan her SNR over the tones and see if she has same problem
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 08:36:24 PM by snadge »
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2012, 10:05:41 AM »

Snadge,

So sky are saying they are not going to send out anymore engineers due to cost. So they are bascially admitting to not being able to resolve your fault which puts you into a position of power to get out of the contract due to technical issues. I would certainly have a read over your T&C in regards to this cause there will be a part there that will state wither you can get out of a contract without getting hit with early charges if sky are unable to resolve a fault. It would need to be the tech team though to request the cancellation in order for this to happen. This fault can be resolved if pressure is applied by your service provider to have this escalated to a field manager. Sky certainly do not pay the costs of an engineer if the fault is found to be on the network they will only pay the costs of an engineer if the fault is found with there own kit like your router, filter, DSL cable and internal wiring etc so i certainly would not believe the £300 cost and if that did happen it would be down to sky to dispute that charge and show that the fault was found on the network and not with the end users own equipment. Don't lie down and take any of this your service needs and deserves to be restored back to what it was you where paying for so you can make that happen by playing your cards right and building your ammo.

Gary
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Black Sheep

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2012, 12:28:38 PM »

dont BTo engineers have tools that show/tell them the AM noise on the line and help locate it?  the JDSU only seems to show max attainable rates INCLUSIVE of the noise on the line - sky has a tool that says there is high am noise on the line, possible grounding fault, my router shows me the loss of SNR over the frequencies... surely BTo have something that says "yes, there is AM noise on this run of cable" and they can test various sections of cable down to and into the exchange? ...surely?  sky rep said they did but the BB engineer just fixed the HR Fault and fled with excuses (pressure from boss) when he was supposed to do BOTH jobs (Fix HR Fault and Diagnose AM Noise), he said he couldnt coax anymore speed out of the line but he hadnt even tried too?? he was going of the JDSU max attain rate which is inclusive of the noise on the line....im starting to wonder if its the MSAN (phone port) absorbing the rein..? as its been since the switch over this has happened, I have been put into another line card but still the same...i dunno if that means the phone was moved too, probably not, so the phone could still be in same card and port??? could it??  I may ask my neighbour who is also on sky if i can use my GT to scan her SNR over the tones and see if she has same problem

Sky haven't got a tool that says there is AM noise on the line. If they have actually said that, they're lying. The only way to determine if that is the case is by using an oscilloscope, or a Spectrum Analyser plugged into your line. Carrying out a low-frequency test remotely, which is ALL the ISP's can do, will not show AM Noise.

I've said before on one of your posts snadge, they may use the term 'grounding', but the term is 'earthing' that we use. This will be picked up on a low frequency remote test. Having said that, the plethora of engineers and all the PQT and Eclipse tests would also have picked up a 'earth' condition if there was one.

Believe me, if the MSAN was picking up REIN, then the whole Exchange would be susceptible. I doubt this is the case, very much so.
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2012, 12:55:24 PM »

Hi Gary,

Well, I dunno... he did say last week that once the NL engineer been out that they would re-asses and decide if a Broadband Engineer needs sending out again, however I have since found that 2 neighbours are with sky, one is WLR3 and one is SVBN MSAN and guess what!! - the WLR3 neighbour has perfect healthy line like mine was and the SVBN MSAN neighbours has absolutely terrible line noise (worse than mine) she only gets 6Mb and the two AM noise spikes are present on her line too, I emailed Chris @ sky and presented him with my findings and I also said Iam going to test a neighbour who is on BT just for good measure to see if its the DP on end of our row, if his line is clear then it would show that its likely sky's msan that is absorbing noise/interference into the line -- I told Chris this and he replied saying he has passed my findings on to the Network Team who will check the possibility of radio frequencies affecting their equipment in the exchange and will report back as soon as he has an update.

I showed him the before and after pictures of my line, I have screenshots of neighbours too (well, I accidentally overwrote one neighbours with the other ...lol..I can get it again though if needed for evidence) - I told the WLR3 neighbour she would get a letter soon saying she is being moved onto SVBN and when she does too let me know so I can re-check her line.

so we'll see what happens... I need to find out how to set up my GT to work with a BT Broadband connection so I can run the tests on my other neighbours line.

@ Black Sheep - Hi mate, well, sky said they have their own internal testing kit but BTopenreach dont care for results from it as they only go off their own tests, the test that is picking up the AM noise is not a live test but runs taking 'snapshots' at various points in time and keeps results over last 7 weeks, last time it had a result when the phone line was working perfectly fine it said "HIGH AM NOISE ON LINE, POSSIBLE GROUNDING FAULT" and that was the only test out of the lot that was flagging up - it was the escalations team rep who first brought my attention to the test & result, I asked Chris about it and he told me what I just said about snapshots and BTo not caring for results from their testing kit and why it cant be used as evidence to BTo too say "look, their is AM noise on the line" - you've probably read my other findings about the SKY WLR3 neighbour not being affected but the SKY MSAN neighbour IS affected, yet I wasnt affected when I was on WLR3....seems a bit suss.. there is the possibility that it may be the DP on the end of my row and the cable from it to the duct, but I dunno - we'll find out when I test my other neighbour who is on BT because if the fault is in that or the cable then he should be susceptible to it also as I have had pairs swapped from that DP to the duct and still the same

Remember the Upstream Line Attenuation was bouncing all over the place too, so something aint right with their hardware by the sounds of it

as for costs etc: its not my fault it took 5 visits to find and repair an HR Fault in the line and sky should not be getting charged as you say...so "technically" sky aint spent all the money he is making out, he said "there has to come a point when we stop spending money on it as we wont recuperate the costs" which is true IF you are being charged for every visit - I made a point of telling him that we spend £537 per year on SKY services and have been with sky for 6 years already
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 01:13:10 PM by snadge »
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2012, 09:06:00 PM »

well... I tested the neighbour thats on BT and guess what... perfect line, he has lower line speed due to high SNRM and heavy interleaving as he uses long extension cables and has internal wiring etc so is inviting problems, but the SNR graph showed no problems with his line, nice smooth contours with the odd gap - this shows that its not the DP or cable on the end of our row...otherwise its very likely he would be affected too.

it seems to me that its the Telephony side of sky's  "Broadband & Phone" (SVBN) MSAN at the exchange, this is because when I was on WLR3 my broadband was ported onto a "Broadband only" MSAN instead of the 'Easynet' Dslam and my phone was routed through WLR3 (BTw) and my connection was spot on, the other sky neighbour who is also on WLR3 is having no issues either - then when they moved me off WLR3/Broadband MSAN to a full "broadband & phone" (SVBN) MSAN I had these interference problems and my other neighbour is also on the SVBN MSAN has the same interference spikes in graph and is even worse than mine - could this mean its either that MSAN or sky's telephony networking in/beyond it? Ive had a Line Card switch with same results so it aint the Line Card.

as you can see from graph below (BT Broadband) he does not have the 'spikes' from radio stations like me and the other SVBN neighbour does, if he got rid of his internal wiring problems and got the SNRM lowered he would have a decent line.

« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 09:39:30 PM by snadge »
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Blackeagle

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2012, 09:27:10 PM »

So snadge, when you were on SMPF, your broadband was fine, but moving to full LLU caused you these issues.  Is that correct ?
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2012, 09:38:19 PM »

So snadge, when you were on SMPF, your broadband was fine, but moving to full LLU caused you these issues.  Is that correct ?

Hi BA,

yeah...

when I was on SMPF my phone was WLR3 and my broadband was on a 'Broadband Only' MSAN (I dunno why it wasnt on easynet Dslam, but it wasnt) - I had no issues, 18Mb connection speed - soon as they changed me over to MPF (broadband AND phone MSAN) I had this problem... and like I say a neighbour who has just signed up with sky is on SMPF and does not have any problems and no noise spikes on the line from radio stations MAGIC and RADIO 5 LIVE , nice healthy line like mine was on SMPF - but another neighbour 2 doors down who is also on sky MPF (broadband and phone MSAN) has the same noise issues as me, infact hers are worse but I cant comment on her internal conditions, however on the SNR graphs I can still see the two afore mentioned radio stations bleeding heavily into her line too...

so thats shows 2 customers that were on SMPF were fine and now 2 customers who are on MPF are not.

when the new customer gets switched and the problem is not resolved I will be over there like a shot to test her line to see if she is the same...im putting money on it!
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Blackeagle

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2012, 07:24:19 PM »

Certainly seems you are getting some evidence together that would seem to support your theory.
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #73 on: May 02, 2012, 08:18:56 PM »

aye... ive not heard from the rep for a few days now...he may be off so I will give it a bit more time before I begin to assume if they are just forgetting about me...
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2012, 02:47:58 PM »

This can be placed as a common issue then cause its the exact same issue in the same area. I would search more evidence from all your neighbours that are on WLR3 aswell as SVBN then get the ones that are having issues to contact sky about it. The more you have call sky the better the chance you will have of getting this resolved cause they will have to fix it if it is causing major issues in your entire area. You could also gather ticket REF numbers from those neighbours that have reported there issues then drop sky an email or call them with all the ticket numbers. Sky will have a major faults team they can pass all the details onto and get it investigated cause it could be an issue with there entire kit at that exchange and it might need all swapped out which is going to be a big job. Problem is sky are not going to do anything fancy if it is just 1 or 2 customers reporting the issue so you may have to get about 10 of your neighbours onboard with this.

Gary
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