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Author Topic: Cable Pairs - A Question  (Read 41276 times)

snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2012, 10:18:39 PM »

"so, fingers crossed for Saturday... wished I had some wonga, I would backhand the lad some money if I had it in an attempt to boost his effort, as its likely to be pee'ing down I reckon he will just get sick and call it off (it is Saturday after all)  ..............TEA & BISCUITS"  

Try not to be too despondent Snadge. 'Tea & Biscuits' ???? ........ Nah mate, bacon & egg butty is the deal-maker.  :P ;D

Ive just got some buns in too  8)
soon as he gets here I will invite him in with offer of cuppa while I tell him what happened and tell him about the AM Noise and grounding fault and show him asbokids graphs and about the masts etc... (thanks asbokid)

BS - i dunno if you will know (coolsnakeman will) - im unsure as to what tests he performs.. but if that fault (HIGH AM NOISE ON LINE, POSSIBLE GROUNDING FAULT) comes up wouldnt it warrant an engineer visit anyway? as today Chris @ tier 2 arranged for the LL14 engineer to come out , but said he could only do so if my line tests ok - so Im assuming he run those same tests, how come he didnt get that error/fault result? I asked why it had to come back clean and he said because if its a line fault it goes to a field engineer - it must have been a line test he done but what test did this other guy do at escalations? - Iam wondering if he was just saying "yes thats passed..all ok" so that it went down on recorded conversation as tested OK...but actually he did see that fault and perhaps thought the LL14 would be able to deal with it better? so just went against protocol? hmmm dunno...
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Ezzer

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2012, 12:46:49 AM »

"That's just playground stuff compared to your find in the JB23 !!! PS .... what were you doing working in the dark Ezz ?? If you were using WITHOD, I'll get the CWU to track you down and give you a chinese burn !!"

Failing light with a couple of other customers with problem lines on top of my eu. It was a warden assisted senior estate. The JB23 was in a grassy area inbetween rows of bungalows away from the pavement.  Always remember a similar estate in another town. A dis, located the fault. someone (never found out who) had dug a big hole by the side of the road and obviously discovered some cable and thought whoops and scarpered. (100pr concentric). So the whole block was off. One of the residence needed an ambulance the night before. Nobodys phone worked, The nearby phone boxes were off. And being the demographic in that area no one had mobiles. So someone flagged down a passing car to call 999 
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Black Sheep

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2012, 07:24:40 AM »

"so, fingers crossed for Saturday... wished I had some wonga, I would backhand the lad some money if I had it in an attempt to boost his effort, as its likely to be pee'ing down I reckon he will just get sick and call it off (it is Saturday after all)  ..............TEA & BISCUITS"  

Try not to be too despondent Snadge. 'Tea & Biscuits' ???? ........ Nah mate, bacon & egg butty is the deal-maker.  :P ;D

Ive just got some buns in too  8)
soon as he gets here I will invite him in with offer of cuppa while I tell him what happened and tell him about the AM Noise and grounding fault and show him asbokids graphs and about the masts etc... (thanks asbokid)

BS - i dunno if you will know (coolsnakeman will) - im unsure as to what tests he performs.. but if that fault (HIGH AM NOISE ON LINE, POSSIBLE GROUNDING FAULT) comes up wouldnt it warrant an engineer visit anyway? as today Chris @ tier 2 arranged for the LL14 engineer to come out , but said he could only do so if my line tests ok - so Im assuming he run those same tests, how come he didnt get that error/fault result? I asked why it had to come back clean and he said because if its a line fault it goes to a field engineer - it must have been a line test he done but what test did this other guy do at escalations? - Iam wondering if he was just saying "yes thats passed..all ok" so that it went down on recorded conversation as tested OK...but actually he did see that fault and perhaps thought the LL14 would be able to deal with it better? so just went against protocol? hmmm dunno...

Quick reply here ......

'Grounding' is what we always call 'Earthing' in the OR world. Now, depending on the severity on the 'Earth contact' depends on what the remote testers 'see'.
I know our CSS test system (RAT -- Remote Automed Test) only shows values of Insulation Resistance up to a maximum of 1Meg Ohm, no matter how good the resistance is. Digital circuits should always be above 5Meg Ohm, but as I say. the system hasn't been upgraded to show that yet.

So, back to your problem, our RAT test will perceive anything below 500Kohm (1/2 Meg Ohm) between the live and neutral legs (A&B legs) to Earth, as a fault. My caveat on this is I've personally had tests as low as 200Kohm and still come back as a LTOK (Line Tests OK).

Sky will have to access TAMS to perform their own test on your circuit, so you could ask your advisor that you're dealing with, what the complete test results were, not just the summary. Adios for now. Work beckons.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 10:23:31 AM by Black Sheep »
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2012, 09:37:33 AM »

just too let you all know I get up this morning and line atten down is up to 31db, speed is mere 6Mb and loads of CRC errors...  it would appear there is still a major fault on the line that has redeveloped...  sigh!! lol....

I have told Chris at sky via email but I wonder if its best waiting for LL14 on Sat or will it have to go to field engineer (bearing in mind 5 visits to the exchange have been done and still they could not fix it)

SF  = 3965390   CRC = 26319  <- this is from 5 emails and 2 webpage views
LOS = 41  LOF = 238   ES = 607


« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 10:45:36 AM by snadge »
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2012, 11:00:09 AM »

"so, fingers crossed for Saturday... wished I had some wonga, I would backhand the lad some money if I had it in an attempt to boost his effort, as its likely to be pee'ing down I reckon he will just get sick and call it off (it is Saturday after all)  ..............TEA & BISCUITS"  

Try not to be too despondent Snadge. 'Tea & Biscuits' ???? ........ Nah mate, bacon & egg butty is the deal-maker.  :P ;D

Ive just got some buns in too  8)
soon as he gets here I will invite him in with offer of cuppa while I tell him what happened and tell him about the AM Noise and grounding fault and show him asbokids graphs and about the masts etc... (thanks asbokid)

BS - i dunno if you will know (coolsnakeman will) - im unsure as to what tests he performs.. but if that fault (HIGH AM NOISE ON LINE, POSSIBLE GROUNDING FAULT) comes up wouldnt it warrant an engineer visit anyway? as today Chris @ tier 2 arranged for the LL14 engineer to come out , but said he could only do so if my line tests ok - so Im assuming he run those same tests, how come he didnt get that error/fault result? I asked why it had to come back clean and he said because if its a line fault it goes to a field engineer - it must have been a line test he done but what test did this other guy do at escalations? - Iam wondering if he was just saying "yes thats passed..all ok" so that it went down on recorded conversation as tested OK...but actually he did see that fault and perhaps thought the LL14 would be able to deal with it better? so just went against protocol? hmmm dunno...

Ok with this being LLU sky have there own systems to test SVBN so they would be using systems completely different from BT. One of the tests i remember was a SELT test which i can't remember what it actually stands for anymore lol. From what i remember this tests from the bar pair (CLT card) at the exchange through the entire network. Yes my friendly engineers sky call the CLT card the bar pair which is fitted onto port 16 i think on the DSLAM or MSAN for SVBN or is it the line card i always get mixed up lol. So when they say they are finding something coming up as "red" it means the test is flagging a part of the network as faulty. Not to sure but i think they still use openreach's website to run a copper line test (CAT) on there SVBN network so that could easily test ok where as the SELT could fail. Don't ask me what CAT actually stands for cause again the years i worked for sky i never thought to ask but i knew what it was for. Hope this helps.

Gary
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2012, 11:48:07 AM »

thanks Gary

you see my latest post above yours?

back to sq 1 today with phone and broadband is much worse and wont hold sync...its hard to post

my burfday today too... :(

LL14 engineer rebooked for tomoz morning - he agree's he may be better trained to sort it as he will be trained to do phone and broadband and has full access
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asbokid

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2012, 01:26:56 PM »

just too let you all know I get up this morning and line atten down is up to 31db, speed is mere 6Mb and loads of CRC errors...  it would appear there is still a major fault on the line that has redeveloped...  sigh!! lol....

I have told Chris at sky via email but I wonder if its best waiting for LL14 on Sat or will it have to go to field engineer (bearing in mind 5 visits to the exchange have been done and still they could not fix it)

SF  = 3965390   CRC = 26319  <- this is from 5 emails and 2 webpage views
LOS = 41  LOF = 238   ES = 607



Many happy returns of the day, snadge! It looks likes someone has given you the broadband bumps though  :o

DMT is once again saying funny things.. It's only showing the tones for ADSL(1)... up to DMT#256.. whereas you have an ADSL2+ connection so we should be seeing 512 tones..

If the other DMT stats are more reliable, they show that your loop attenuation has gone up from (at best) ~-20dB on April 21st to (at best) ~-35dB today, April 26th.

The SNRs for the DMTs we can see, those up to DMT#256, are high enough to support much better bit-loading that you are currently getting.   Explaining perhaps why the RCO (relative capacity occupation) ratios are so low (just 40% RCO for downstream). This is presumably an effect of dynamic line management?

Sounds like you're getting some good attention from Sky and Openreach.  Here's hoping they will burst the boil on your broadband!

cheers, a




« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 01:29:27 PM by asbokid »
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2012, 03:01:14 PM »

Hi asbokid,

when did I have 20db downtream LA..?  do you mean 26db? I dont think its ever been below 26db which is where it should be...  Iam certain that there are two faults here, one the first engineer has caused (picking up rein), and a battery contact up this end due to the rain, either in that cable from my DP to end house' DP  ..or... in the duct around the corner as its filled with water, they installed that not long ago and its at the bottom of a verge off the field and the field has had problems with drainage, we all had 1 foot of rain water in gardens coming off field 3 years back and had to resort to sand-bagging to stop it.. the council put in some drainage which worked , but it seems to be clogged up on the field again as its like walking in a puddle over the whole field (although its not coming down onto our lawns again)

so I think the battery contact is actually in there and reason it worked after last engineer is because he fished out all the water before testing my line (as did the one before him, tested LOTK, but later on it came back)...  but there is still a fault somewhere that has the contact (grounding fault) thats picking up the AM noise...even sky's system picked that up last night.

Iam now in ADSL2+ mode but still same upto 256 bins.. maybe cos DMT see's theres nothing on the above bins it wont display them?

new stats:
I have not been using it either other than few emails and messages on forum

SF  = 4815999   CRC = 37875
LOS = 78   LOF = 483   ES = 652


« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 03:06:41 PM by snadge »
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2012, 05:19:14 PM »

Snadge,

Yeah i seen your post and def not looking good at all. Fingers and toes are crossed for you mate on tomorrows visit i hope this engineer has the wit to go out of his way to get this sorted for you. Happy b/day mate hope you where able to salvage the day from all the problems you have been having with that curse of a broadband service of yours.

Gary

P.s did kitz take the emoticon off that was of a wee man with a party hat on or did he never have that lol
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asbokid

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2012, 12:49:18 AM »

when did I have 20db downtream LA..?  do you mean 26db?

Hi snadge.

Sorry, I didn't word it properly.. what i meant to say was that on the 21st April, the least attenuated subcarriers were recording roughly -20dB of attenuation. They were the DMTs around 300kHz. But by the 26th April, the lowest attenuation level of any subcarrier had risen to roughly -35dB..

-20dB to -35dB (a logarithmic scale) is a considerable rise in attenuation. As a power ratio it's about 30 times more attenuation..

Quote
I am now in ADSL2+ mode but still same upto 256 bins.. maybe cos DMT see's theres nothing on the above bins it wont display them?

DMT is reporting that it is synced in G992.5 ADSL2+, albeit at ADSL1 speeds and with an ADSL1 tonemap.. But can that be clarified elsewhere - ie via adslctl?

DMT doesn't seem very accurate. Kitz and I questioned whether it may have wrongly reported that you were on Annex M with O2/Be*, and coloured the bitloading graph based on that error.  It's possible that it's wrongly reporting here that you're synced at ADSL2+..

Either way, crossed fingers for tomorrow!

cheers, a
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2012, 09:40:37 AM »

LL14 engineer is not here yet, but weve had no rain all night and its a bit drier and the attenuation has dropped a bit (changes on each reboot), and able to hold a stable(ish) connection @ 6-9Mb

DMT Tool was reporting the correct sync as I was checking it against the router connection stats - just goes too show how screwed my line is, its sunny and no rain, im hoping it holds out so the engineer isnt working in rain and gets sick n calls it off.

This morning the router would not get an IP until I spoofed my sagem's mac address into my Netgear GT -  WIERD, because I have been using it without a spoofed mac address for weeks now.
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2012, 09:55:20 AM »

This morning the router would not get an IP until I spoofed my sagem's mac address into my Netgear GT -  WIERD, because I have been using it without a spoofed mac address for weeks now.

ooooooo sky are onto you with a flashed router  >:D loll Was your appointment an AM slot time cause if it was he has up to 1pm to get to you  ;D

Gary
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2012, 10:05:20 AM »

yeah it was...  :)

is the system automatic at detecting flashed routers or do they manually force new IP..? seems odd it would just happen this morning..seems automatic, I have always used mac spoof but i took it off weeks ago just to test it and it worked...then i was moved onto a diff line card 48 hours ago without re-enabling the mac spoof..
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2012, 12:14:29 PM »

Snadge,

Not to sure if sky can actually detect a flashed router or not. I come across customers years ago when working for sky that had flashed routers the only reason i knew this was because they put there username as something fairly nasty towards sky. Off course seeing the fact that it was abusive towards sky and that it was flashed i refused to troubleshoot there issues and actually advised them they could be cut off due to being in breach of contract. I have a flashed sky sagem in the house which i think the sagem firmware is pretty good :). I also looked into flashing an o2 router but gave up the minute i had to do anything physical with the router cause it is the jtag i think you call it that gets flashed. I could take the time to build the tool that is needed to flash that router but i don't know if i could be bothered lol. That engineer turned up yet?

Gary
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2012, 04:12:39 PM »

hi Gary

a flashed 2504N..? I wouldnt mind an unlocked one of those because its a good router... (I have one...but not unlocked)

anyway, he's been and NO JOY... because it went from being a BROADBAND DIAG job to a LINE REPAIR (HR Fault) job he has had to spend 4 fours installing a new run of cable to the end DP...broadband is still same with noise, i told him there were 2 issues when he got here and he wasnt convinced...he was by time he left!!

here is copy of email to SKY:

Quote
Hi Chris,

Got a problem, we should have booked a Field engineer out for the HR Fault that returned on the line and left the broadband engineer for Saturday, because he has had to spend 4 hours replacing cable just to get the phone back on that he has not had time to pursue the broadband fault; which is noise on the line - I have DMT SNR-per-tone graphs showing it, before (fine on 18Mb)...and after when its noisy (which I showed the engineer).

The engineer said that because his boss was on his case to get too another job that he could not stay around, I asked if an engineer came the day before and done what he did (which he should have because broadband engineers are only bookable on a clean line, which mine wasn't) what would he have done? he said he would be testing it in the cabinets with his JDSU all the way down to the exchange but he has not got the time to do it.

He was convinced that SKY may be applying some ‘cap’ but I know you aren't as I am 1150k up (20Mb profile) and I showed him the DMT SNR scans of the ADSL2+ frequency (before and after) which shows noise on the line suddenly more prominent after the first fault happened after the switch over, the graphs show two lots of AM noise spikes on the line, when I was switched over the speed was ok (17.5Mb), it was the next day when engineer went out (after his work) too fix the “crossed wire” that the AM noise came on the line and speed dropped to 11Mb ... this is what I told the engineer, between all the attempted repairs by BTopenreach the speed has remained at 11Mb, this is how I know there is a secondary issue.

He said if he could be re-booked he would certainly look into it, but because there was an outstanding HR Fault (Line Issue) that the job has fallen back onto repairing that rather than fault-finding for the broadband.

The noise is still prevalent and being introduced into the line, where it wasn’t before the 1st engineers visit at the exchange/cab.

What's your take on all this Chris?  I think that given the fact that a line fault occurred after the booking of the Broadband Engineer I think that a Field Engineer should have been booked to repair that HR Fault – then the broadband engineer to diagnose that (the problem engineer no.1 has caused).

Look forward to your replies.

Regards,

Paul
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 05:22:18 PM by snadge »
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