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Author Topic: Cable Pairs - A Question  (Read 35475 times)

snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #120 on: May 24, 2012, 09:12:52 PM »

@ Eric - I thought that WBC was part of 21CN :)

Well, as I said, I was being slightly pedantic. 21CN and ADSL2+ are not synonymous - the WBC component of 21CN enables ADSL2+ as an option, but other types of ADSL are supported too. And it isn't necessary for an exchange to be upgraded to the full 21CN to get these options - only the WBC component is needed.

(Sorry, I have a habit of doing this. I think I must have been a schoolmaster in another life. :) )

No its ok , its good to make sure its clear :) it seems to get muddled up a lot  - ive always known 21CN as the term for the next gen network upgrades that BT are rolling out, these include WBC (Wholesale Broadband Connect) which is ADSL2+ provision and FTTC (Fibre-To-The-Cabinet) which as we all know is fibre provision , there is (I think) also hardware enhancements/upgrades and upgrades for the Telephone side of things too (I may be wrong there) - I just wanted to be sure thats why I asked.

Ive asked on sky help forum about the ISAM thing, but they dont seem to know much about it either (which is to be expected) - but a rep did say that MSAN replaces the ISAM when an MSAN is present, but they dont have any other info apart from that... so Im wondering if the ISAM is part of the old Dslam setup? maybe the ISAM controlled all the DSLAMs..? I dunno... I WISH i had asked the engineer now... anyway they do exist, Integrated Services Access Manager...theres even ASAM's (but dunno if they are used in this country)

I could be wrong.... just a guess, but maybe they started installing ISAM's to replace the easynet DSLAM's - but then they changed to MSAN's which handles both data and voice, and as such some exchanges have both and some have one or the other (which is more or less what the sky rep on their forum has just said)

Alcatel Lucent 7302 ISAM

EDIT: more searching may suggest that ISAM is Alcatel's term for their MSAN's , so maybe when sky refer to ISAM it just a different/older type of MSAN they have...dont know who supplys there new ones then
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #121 on: May 26, 2012, 11:46:52 AM »

strange SNR and bit-swapping in warm weather?

seems to be getting worse in warm weather which co-incides getting better in damp weather... Bald_eagle mentioned service specific filtered faceplate made difference on his and coould be iffy - ive only had this 'strangeness' since having it installed....gunna change it over

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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #122 on: May 27, 2012, 04:49:56 PM »

UPDATE:

the SNS (Sky Network Services) Engineer called before – he said he had been getting my emails with my graphs, he said that he would like to get another BT Broadband Engineer out on his own (without sky engineer) because the last one didnt do the job and if they got a Sky Engineer out and the problem turned out to be on BT’s loop then they would be charging BT for the call out, and this happens a lot of the time he says, he reckons if it does happen then when BT get the bill they could and probably would say that they refuse to pay because they weren't given a chance to fix it, if the 1st broadband engineer couldnt stay to do it then you should have told us and we would have arranged another...
 
so...  to make sure that doesnt happen, he wants to get another broadband engineer out and if he is unsuccessful they will get a Sky Engineer out with a BT Engineer.
 
its been arranged for next Friday afternoon, the engineer I spoke to on the phone (Liam) has taken my mobile number so he can call me directly on the day so he can talk to the BT engineer, so the BT engineer doesnt have to go through the “co-op” system which can cause problems ... he said he may give you some rubbish like “iam not allowed to speak to him” but he can...so this should be interesting...
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #123 on: May 28, 2012, 12:31:24 PM »

Snadge,

They are allowed to speak to a service providers engineer this is certainly not in breach of compliance cause that would not be deemed as favouritism in the eyes of ofcom. Whats the BT engineer going to do sell the sky engineer BT broadband lolll Anyway sounds like you are getting closer to getting this resolved and you can now see sky's engineers are seeing a problem there due to your investigative work you have carried out which for the record you should never have had to do thats what you pay your service provider for.

Gary
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #124 on: May 28, 2012, 12:45:28 PM »

Hi Gary,

I have to say, the more I speak to the SNS Engineer, the less confident Iam about it getting sorted, Iam sure he is angling for cheaper alternatives (RF3 filter) and readying me for a big let down:

1. I sent him graphs showing Noise Margin fluctuations between 8-9pm through to 3-4am which lower my speed by a futher 2Mb - he says this is common and to be expected?? even though I said I never had this before...

2. I sent him graphs showing the bit-loading/SNR before/after where the higher tones where hit more by noise than the tones where the AM Radio Spikes where and he said "low bit loading on these tones is normal, so im not too concerned about that" - he went on about only being concerned where the tones are being completely knocked out...which...only accounts for a small amount of the missing bandwidth when compared to the upper tones missing bits/SNR which accounts for most of the missing bandwidth...

3. I sent him graphs showing the upstream line attenuation at seven different values between 7db-16db over just 3 days (between reboots) - but after what he said about the two above I didnt even ask him about it ...in fear he would be sick of me trying to hound him about improper values he may deem to be "normal"

Ive a feeling when friday comes it will be a quick test at the JB and stick an RF3 filter on once they realise the problem ISNT there... and if RF3 filter gets rid of the radio spikes then I will gain all of 1.5Mbps...or so? and may attempt to fob me off with that :( because that what it feels like its heading towards....how can those massive noise increases in evening, missing bits/SNR from upper tones and fluctuating Attenuation all be "normal" when i didnt have it before my switch to SVBN
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 12:50:22 PM by snadge »
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #125 on: May 28, 2012, 03:17:30 PM »

Snadge,

Perhaps it is deemed as normal on there network as they expect this kind of thing on the SVBN equipment however its down to wither you deem it as acceptable and value for money. Remember you are the customer at the end of the day and its down to you wither or not you feel there equipment and everything else that comes with it is what you want as a service. That kind of carry on with a BT network i certainly would not deem as normal if anything i would see that as ridiculous and something needs to be done about it. I do hope something positive comes out of this on friday cause this has been a long road for you and i give you a big clap for your patience cause if it had of been me i would of been requested my Mac code by now to move away to another service perhaps one that doesn't use that type of technology. I would also been getting written confirmation that sky are unable to fix or improve your service so cancelling out of technical reasons would get you out of your contract without inccuring any charges. I played that call when moving from BT although they wanted me to pay £30 instead of £130 which i agreed to considering it was £100 knocked off which you can't go wrong with  :lol:

Gary
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #126 on: May 28, 2012, 03:54:55 PM »

Hi Gary,

I could not get a MAC code though Gary, I may have swapped back if it were that easy, when your on SVBN its a cease and reprovide because its FMPF (Full Metallic Path Facility) , MAC code system does not operate over sky's SVBN, infact, as far as Im aware you can no longer get Sky Broadband on its own, you have to take phone line with it...could be wrong but Iam sure thats what I read over at Sky User.

also, the neighbour who thinks I have broke his broadband has just blanked our lass out when she waved at him... pathetic, really is... if he is that bothered about it WHY doesnt he come and see me about it?
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #127 on: May 28, 2012, 05:26:07 PM »

Snadge,

Perhaps you should approach him and speak to him to clear the air. At least your giving him a chance to get whatever he needs off his chest cause he may be going around telling people you have broke his service when in actual fact it was broke well and truly before you touched it lol. Your right about sky you can not get there broadband service without signing up to there line service and you can't get there line service without signing up to there tv service so you need to sign up to it all to get broadband.

Gary
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #128 on: May 28, 2012, 08:15:52 PM »

Snadge,

Perhaps you should approach him and speak to him to clear the air. At least your giving him a chance to get whatever he needs off his chest cause he may be going around telling people you have broke his service when in actual fact it was broke well and truly before you touched it lol. Your right about sky you can not get there broadband service without signing up to there line service and you can't get there line service without signing up to there tv service so you need to sign up to it all to get broadband.

Gary

SERIOUSLY???

you cant just get a Phone Line or Phone line & Broadband?
I thought there were extra costs involved if you didnt have the TV, e.g. broadband is £10.00 instead of £7.50..?

re my neighbour: I cant approach and say "you think this...that" cos i will be dropping my next door neighbour right in it, but, Iam just gunna make a point of saying hello and seeing what his response is, mind, before I found out about it he was fine, said hello and joked on about his garden when I walked past 3 times the other day, then I was told about it, my neighbbour could see I was upset about it and I was saying I wanted it sorted out, so (feelin a bit guilty / sorry for me) he said he would go and see him (he didnt want to because it would drop him in it, he just said he would as he could see I was upset) so, I just wondered away into the house and he (my next door neighbour) knocked 5-10 minutes later and said he spoke to him and told him I wanted to see him about it to get it sorted and he said "he says its your problem, you deal with it" (meaning its my next door neighbours problem, him deal with it???)... which I found totally odd.. I dont think my next door neighbour really went too see him, changed his mind and made that up....BUT... its been since then he ignored my lass and 2 days ago I was cutting grass and I said hello and he didnt say anything back but thought it may have been cos of the mower i couldnt hear him, im so pee'd off because TWICE this man has asked me too look at his laptop for him, and TWICE ive fixed it...first time for free, second time for £10... now I ask him for a favour and he calling me worse than **** down the pub?
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #129 on: May 29, 2012, 11:05:04 AM »

Snadge,

Don't let it worry you to much it is just ignorance to technology. Not wanting to give himself time to learn about it he would rather blame someone else on breaking something that was already broken. Best thing to do is decline his requests to repair anything else belonging to him and if he asks why then just tell him you don't have liability insurance to cover for anything that might go wrong. Noone likes to fall out with there neighbours so pass yourself with him and carry on your day he will come around eventually when he realises he has been in the wrong. I run my own IT business i see this on a daily basis and taking the civilized approach to these circumstances are always best. If you do go and fix anyone elses laptops or PC's be sure to explain to them what you are doing to repair the machine and also get them to sign a consent form to show they are giving you consent to work on there machine and if any loss of data or damage due to static is caused during this procedure that you are not going to be held liable for those damages. Keeps your own back covered. Make sure you stick to your ESD procedures using an anti static bracelet if your going into a machine and grounding yourself and explain that to your customer so he understands your carry out safety procedures to protect his machine. Something as simple as that can avoid speculation from your customer  ;D

Gary
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #130 on: May 29, 2012, 04:14:02 PM »

thanks Gary,

taken onboard, its been on my mind all day today and I made myself ill worrying about it, had to go lie down cos wasnt feeling to well. At least I know I haven't done anything wrong , the reason he is getting 8Mb sync instead of 16Mb sync is because he uses a really long extension lead from hallway into living room where it feeds the router, his SNRM was through the roof, he may even be fixed on an 8Mb package (he was on ADSL2+) , but I think its that, see I pointed it out that he should be getting 16Mb ... he said "oh im on cheapest package" and I said "I dont think it matters, I think BT are same speeds on all packages" - i showed him the RCO saying he could get 16Mb - but I went on to show and explain the SNR Spectrum and how his broadband is spot on, now I think about it he may have dwelled on this "should be getting 16Mb" issue and now assumes its my fault he aint getting it... silly thing is if he approaches me about it I could sort it out in seconds...  he has always had 8Mb and its been enough, but now ive pointed it out he thinks he had more and ive broke it.

ah well, watch this space
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 04:16:18 PM by snadge »
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coolsnakeman

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #131 on: May 29, 2012, 05:00:01 PM »

Snadge,

Not worth making yourself ill over the height of it. Like i said he is ignorant to technology and cause he doesn't understand it and you do that makes you an easier target to blame a fault on (even though there is no fault just a pretty long extension cable). If he approaches you about it and blames you on breaking it advise him to remove the extension cable and go directly into the master socket then check his speeds then come back to you if it still isn't working. He is obviously paranoid and thinks you have waived that magic wand and taking away 8Mb of speed on him.

Gary
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #132 on: June 02, 2012, 12:58:31 AM »

Gary - see HERE on how today went mate ..lol
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snadge

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Re: Cable Pairs - A Question
« Reply #133 on: June 04, 2012, 01:04:38 PM »

Gary - sorted mate :)

all fixed... lost a little bit of speed (1-2Mb) but nothing to complain about

see here
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,11218.msg217977.html#msg217977
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