Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[burakkucat]

I second Gary's comments. You have a fault with the service. The fault is not within your domain or control. The fault is intermittent. You reject your ISP's attempts to pass any charge onto you. Your ISP should, in turn, reject Openreach's attempts to pass any charge onto them.

Make it quite clear that the fault does still exist and needs to be escalated within Openreach to those with the correct equipment/means to identify and eliminate the cause of the fault.

[benji09]

  If you really get problems with an unjustified bill give Mr Livingstone a call at the BT Centre in London, or your ISP's equivalent. As already mentioned to you, the fact the BT engineer went outside and carried out work on the line means he must have confirmed you had a genuine fault. Do not stand for this stupidity.

[benji09]

  BT should only charge you in the event of :-  1. Customer not knowing how to operate the equipment.
                                                                    2. Customer's OWN equipment was faulty.
                                                                    3.  When the circuit was `Right When Tested' ( RWT )

  BT should not charge for a fault on THEIR line or equipment, or an FNF report, as by BT's own definition an FNF report can only be applied if the BT engineer has witnessed a fault, that had subsequently disappeared.

Unless BT has changed their fault definitions since I was employed by them, the above is correct.........

[soreilly]

Hi All,

Dispute has been raised.  Let's see what happens.

Strangely my connection has been more reliable of late - coincidence?

[coolsnakeman]

Good man but make sure you certainly do not take no for an answer  . That could be coincidence but if it has started to work ok just be happy with that and keep a close watching eye on it.

Gary

[SlowConnector]

This is a bit of a longshot, but would you mind me asking if you have a fridge or freezer anywhere near your router?

[soreilly]

This is a bit of a longshot, but would you mind me asking if you have a fridge or freezer anywhere near your router?

Hi,

Cabling or router go nowhere near the fridge / freezer.

Regards,

[SlowConnector]

One more longshot: do you think your phone cable (behind the test socket) would run close to your mains electricity power cable? (e.g. do they share the same ducting)

[soreilly]

One more longshot: do you think your phone cable (behind the test socket) would run close to your mains electricity power cable? (e.g. do they share the same ducting)

Hi,

Sorry for the delay in replying - been away for a few days.

In regards to the question - nope.  We live in a close.  There are two BT poles with overhead cables to all the properties.  Our cable comes off the pole to a box under the eves and then down the outside of the house to the front window where it enters the property. 

Regards,

[Black Sheep]

  BT should only charge you in the event of :-  1. Customer not knowing how to operate the equipment.
                                                                    2. Customer's OWN equipment was faulty.
                                                                    3.  When the circuit was `Right When Tested' ( RWT )

  BT should not charge for a fault on THEIR line or equipment, or an FNF report, as by BT's own definition an FNF report can only be applied if the BT engineer has witnessed a fault, that had subsequently disappeared.

Unless BT has changed their fault definitions since I was employed by them, the above is correct.........

Mostly true apart from the highlight mate.

A 'FNF' is when the diagnostic tester (Front desk) has witnessed a fault using remote testing equipment, and the subsequent engineering visit reveals everything to be OK. This can not be charged against the ISP/EU. 

[soreilly]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for dragging this thread up again, but I checked my monitoring graphs today and saw erratic behaviour.  I'm also monitoring the link via the BQM at Thinkbroadband.  Unfortunately I can't run RouterStats as I'm not at the property (and won't be until next week).  The router is powered up in case someone needs to use the net via Wifi.

The screenshot is from a server running MRTG and polling the router every 60 seconds.  The light blue area is downstream data and dark blue is upstream.

Here is the BQM link which shows a lot of packet loss across the link, where as the MRTG graphs so virtual no traffic all day (around 300bps).

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/4ad3b828eea50c720c897d1e79b8ee4f-20-06-2012.html

EDIT: Currently using the Netgear DG834 router.

Thoughts?

PS, the dispute ticket for the SFI engineering visit last month is still open with my ISP. 

[soreilly]

Hi Guys,

I know it's been a while but, sadly, whatever is affecting my line is back again.

Things had been relatively fine (bar the thousands of CRC & HEC errors clocking up even when the connection wasn't being used).  I was synced at 11Mbps getting a good throughput.

That was, until earlier this week.  The dry warm weather arrives and my line starts playing up again.  On Sunday, according to RouterStats, the connection was unstable for an hour or so in the middle of the day.  Today over a period of 4hrs, RouterStats showed the connection was unstable (and unusable according to a family member. I was at work).

So, how do I trace this fault?

- ISP has tested the circuit and confirmed no fault.
- SFI engineer out in May who confirmed no fault.  Dispute ongoing re charges.
- Fault only appears to happen in prolonged periods of dry warm weather.
- Changed router / cabling / filters - fault still apparent.
- Connected at the test socket - fault still apparent.
- Tried different hardware - fault still apparent.

I'm at home tomorrow, and judging by the weather forecast (http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2652053), I can probably say with some certainty the connection will be unstable at some point.

I'll post a link to the RouterStats data once I have looked through it.

Edit: I thought it might be the router overheating but the router is located in a room that does not get the Sun on it until mid afternoon.  It also happened when the router was located in other rooms around the house.  The router is warm to touch but not hot.

[snadge]

and you have tried other routers?

did the engineer do a Wideband Noise test?  looking at the report he done a Pair Quality test and Fast test, these are just basic "quality" tests, he most certainly hasnt done a Wideband Noise test (unless its not listed in his report), ive had an SFI engineer out before who didnt even run these kind of "obvious" tests - the 2nd one (who found the problem by using a Wideband Noise Test) wasnt even gunna try until I pushed him into it shoving evidence in his face (print outs of SNR & QLN before & after showing noise on the line) - the point here is the engineer may not have run basic wideband noise tests which would show noise on the line - sounds like that SFI engineer is looking for narrowband noise (audible such as crackling, clicking, whistling, popping etc)

there are a few more tests he could have carried out but sounds like all he has done is test that its functional for phone & broadband regardless of noise and speed, as long as some throughput comes through & can make and receive a call then its a pass, but he needs to be reminded that it wasnt always like this and he should pursue further tests - you really have to push them or your stuck with it...I was in same boat.

I think the reason a previous poster mentioned about the fridge/freezer is that they run even harder on warm days, could it be emitting REIN when its running?

Ive heard that wet weather may make overhead lines heavier and the weight creates more pull on the connections which may be making them better if they are badly corroded or something??  hence dry weather reverses this

as you have massive error counts this shows there is wideband noise activity, what you need to do is get another SFI out on a hot day when the problem is occurring and remind your ISP to remind him its his job is too stay all day until the problem is resolved (which is what I was told by a few people and a rep at sky) - he could run other tests, also go to each point in the line and check the joins etc, test each section between each joint if needs be.

this will be a right head-ache for you, I know because i went through same thing and took me 3 months and 7 engineer visits to get it put right

[coolsnakeman]

Snadge,

I believe the line expands during hot weather and contracts during cold weather or the other way about i am not 100% sure. One thing i do know is that an engineer is not required to stay all day to fault find because if he did that he would be in some serious trouble by his field engineer. They are given an allocated time (usually 2 hours) to fault find and if they do not find a fault in that period they either have to sign the job off as FNF or advise on another engineer visit if they believe there is still more work to be carried out. I do believe from the domain checks that you have done this problem is most certainly on your service providers network and it certainly is down to them to make sure this is repaired. Have you checked with other neighbours around you to see if they are encountering the same sort of issues? This always helps when gathering evidence to go to the SP with as snadge would agree. Getting an SFI sent out during a hot day is going to be a tough one. Your going to have to keep up with the weather man/woman and hope to god they get it right on the day of your visit.

Regards
Gary

[burakkucat]

The weather effect on a xDSL is something that Black_Eagle1 is familiar. After 11 months, it was traced to a pair of poor connections at the pole-top DP. Not on the drop-cable to DP side but on the feed-cable (from underground) to the DP side.