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Author Topic: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)  (Read 8108 times)

plkitz

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Q : Is anyone clever here that can glance at two line stats outputs (using the HG614 scripts) to understand where a line speed issue is occuring ?

Simply, I've known for a while my neighbour shows a max speed of 74/28 using my (unlocked) modem, but I only show 54/14. An engineer that came out to replace his faulty modem a few months back kindly popped over and confirmed these readings with his test equipment but he couldn't do anything as he had no job to map my line information to. He agreed there was something wrong with my line. The challenge will be to get this resolved, but BT won't see my speed as an issue.

So, If I have my graph outputs with my modem, and take my modem to him and repeat the test, it would be nice to have a clearer picture of why my line has an issue when I am closer to the cab (confirmed by the engineer and the route the wires take).

I do have another ADSL line and that had a fault last year and has had great ADSL2+ speeds since then, rock solid, after having the pair replaced all the way back to the exchange (that took 5 engineers to do !). If all else fails, I could ditch Infinity, and migrate the ADSL line to Infinity to see if that gets me better stats.

Before I do anything that commit me to new contracts, I would like to exhaust any avenue of resolving the issue which is most likely a problem on the line somewhere and arming myself with better information can't be a hinderance.

Many thanks
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2012, 01:27:21 PM »

Hi plkitz & welcome.

Assuming you are using the Windows scripts, the Current (snapshot) graphs may give an indication of the differences between the 2 connections.

However, to try to determine any reasons for the differences, it would be really helpful to have a good few days worth of Ongoing stats for each connection.

I have sudied my own connection stats over quite a few mionths (especially how it changes over a period of time) & have a rough idea of what to look for.

You certainly don't want it to look like mine (attached).

Cheers,


Paul.
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plkitz

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2012, 03:58:02 PM »

Thanks - I still have no idea what your graphs are telling me :-)

My line isn't unstable - it will quite happily stay at the current speed and show the potential uncapped speed unchanged from the moment it first syncs. Would multiple days really make much difference ? No problem in collating several days worth here, but tricky at my neighbour's where I'll need to resite the modem.

The BT engineer has already told me there is an issue - it's just how can I effectively get it resolved. I'd be happy to have the pairs of my 2 lines swapped knowing full well my other line is in tip top condition. I could then discard the second adsl line completely.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 04:12:32 PM by plkitz »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 05:15:52 PM »


Thanks - I still have no idea what your graphs are telling me :-)


Perhaps you could post a couple of examples of what you already have for us to have a look at.

Quote
My line isn't unstable - it will quite happily stay at the current speed and show the potential uncapped speed unchanged from the moment it first syncs. Would multiple days really make much difference ? No problem in collating several days worth here, but tricky at my neighbour's where I'll need to resite the modem.

That really is unusual.
Potential Uncapped Speed (Attainable Rate) usually fluctuates over every 24 hour period, roughly in line with changes in SNRM.

SNRM is usually at its highest at around 2pm & at its lowest at around 2am for ALL connections.

The scripts can be very quickly set up to collect connection stats, completely unattended, every minute 24/7 until stopped.
It only takes a few seconds to set them up for automated data harvesting.

Quote
The BT engineer has already told me there is an issue - it's just how can I effectively get it resolved. I'd be happy to have the pairs of my 2 lines swapped knowing full well my other line is in tip top condition. I could then discard the second adsl line completely.

Did the engineer mention the specific nature of the issue & did he mention the reported line lenghs for yours & your neighbour's connections for comparison purposes (obtainable from his test equipment)?

The onus of proof is on the end user & without an unlocked modem & factual records/graphs that is almost impossible.

As your connection is apparently "operating within acceptable limits", the chances of getting anything done would appear almost non-existant (unless you were able to provide proof of an issue).
Even with proof you would face an uphill struggle.

I have been told a number of times that my connection is satisfactory & all line tests are O.K.

Without ongoing graphical proof to the contrary, I could well have been stuck with sync speeds of 15Mb or so as that is still "within acceptable limits".

Finally, who are your respective ISPs?
Some ISPs are more receptive to trouble-shooting than others.
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deathtrap3000

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2012, 06:42:41 PM »

Are you sure you are served from the same DP? Your line lengths could be significantly different.
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plkitz

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2012, 09:17:48 AM »

The engineer came round after resolving my neighbour's issue - which was a faulty 06 VDSL modem. After a quick chat, he popped over with his hand held tester after doing the same tests over the road, and the 25% difference in speed potential was consistent with the stats I had from my unlocked modem here and at his house (which I had already done).

We are both at the end of the village - I hang off the main pipe from the cabinet. he is then off a newer segment from that wire in the estate opposite (they are the first house). My house sits on a site of another house that had been here for a few hundred years.

I know that the wire goes past my house to a "main" junction point in the road 40 yards further away, and that we both come from that.

My neighbour is back from vacation on Sunday - I'm currently tracking stats here now, and I'll get some from his line when he returns and post them up.

Thanks everyone
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plkitz

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2012, 04:00:36 PM »

One thing I had noticed a while back was that his snr margin was 6, and mine is 11.6/12.

Again, I'll get some detailed stats next week.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 04:23:21 PM »


One thing I had noticed a while back was that his snr margin was 6, and mine is 11.6/12.


Your higher SNRM suggests that you have spare margin compared to your Sync speed.

I wonder if DLM has set a lower sync speed & Max rate for your line due to lots of errors, and/or possibly many re-syncs.

A lot of re-syncs can go unnoticed as they happen that quickly that they are not detected by your ISP & thus the IP Profile doesn't always get updated.

Even without graphing or intentionally monitoring your connection stats, the HG612's built in log should show whenever the connection has re-synced.

If you haven't already done so, you might have to enable logging & set the time on the modem's internal clock.
(The clock has to be reset following each reboot, but not each "on the fly" re-sync.

Just a few days from my modem's log (My ISP didn't see most of these events until I forced a new PPP session by resetting the ROUTER):-

2012-4-13 5:28:35 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
2012-4-13 5:28:19 Notice 104500 DSL deactivate

2012-4-12 21:24:11 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
2012-4-12 21:23:50 Notice 104500 DSL deactivate

2012-4-12 13:6:36 Notice 0 admin login

2000-1-1 0:0:21 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
2000-1-1 0:0:18 Debug 104500 LAN1 up
2000-1-1 0:0:16 Debug 104500 LAN2 up
2000-1-1 0:0:16 Notice 1 System up
2000-1-1 0:0:3 Warning 10400 KLOB Pool 1 Initialized: 1048576 bytes <0x80300000 ... 0x80400000>
2012-4-12 12:55:53 Warning 104001 System reboot

2012-4-12 10:53:41 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
2012-4-12 10:53:14 Notice 104500 DSL deactivate

2012-4-8 22:17:4 Notice 0 admin login

2012-4-8 22:12:49 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
2012-4-8 22:12:33 Notice 104500 DSL deactivate

2012-4-8 6:25:6 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
2012-4-8 6:25:6 Critical 10400 Line 0: VDSL2 link up, Path 0, us=5768, ds=31048
2012-4-8 6:24:50 Notice 104500 DSL deactivate

2012-4-7 12:17:7 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
2012-4-7 12:13:22 Notice 104500 DSL deactivate

2012-4-7 12:4:36 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
2012-4-7 12:4:20 Notice 104500 DSL deactivate

2012-4-7 11:46:50 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
2012-4-7 10:23:33 Notice 104500 DSL deactivate

2012-4-7 10:22:45 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
2012-4-7 10:21:58 Notice 104500 DSL deactivate

2012-4-7 10:2:7 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
2012-4-7 9:54:13 Notice 104500 DSL deactivate



You can see from the above that the clock had to be reset as the date was in the year 2000 following the reboot:-
2000-1-1 0:0:21 Notice 104500 DSL activate succeed
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 04:28:14 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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plkitz

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 12:39:43 PM »

I've got some stats. My line at 11.15am this morning, his around 30 minutes laters.

His speeds are 78/28, mine 54/15. His download is 50% faster, his upload twice as fast (although his upload hits the 20mb cap). There are some brighter fellows than myself when it comes to this stuff - would anyone care to take a gander and pass their thoughts on what the issue may be ?

Many THANKS !
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2012, 01:09:46 PM »

The version of the GRAPH6.BAT you are using generates the montages a little too large to attach to Kitz forum messages.

I have attached a different version named GRAPH6.TXT

It would be helpul for us all to view the stats publicly if you renamed this to GRAPH6.BAT & used it to replace your original version.

I'll be releasing updated scripts soon, including this version of GRAPH6.BAT, along with other updates for the Ongoing stats etc.

Once you have replaced the GRAPH6.BAT, with the Scripts folder & the relevant Current_Stats folders open at the same time, simply drag & drop the relevant Plink.log onto the GRAPH6.BAT icon & the graphs will be replotted & generate a montage that can be attached here.

In a nutshell though, everything about your neighbour's stats looks a little better than yours.
It would be easier to discuss with the montages attached though.


Just a taster is attached


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plkitz

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2012, 01:20:54 PM »

I've had to delete a few files (200k limit), but here are the two new ZIPs with your new batch file

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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 01:27:51 PM »

What I meant was just post the portrait montages for each connection.

With ther amended GRAPH6.BAT they will each be less than 200k.

Examples from my connection & somone else's are attached:-
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plkitz

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2012, 01:31:30 PM »

Understood - here you go

First is my line
Second is his better line
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2012, 01:48:11 PM »

Right,

Firstly, it appears you are on a 40/10 service & your neighbour's is 80/20.

That should NOT affect Attainable Rates though.

Your Attainable Rate is lower due to:-

higher attenuation per tone (Hlog graph)
attenuation per band plan (pbParams) is therefore higher for your connection
lower Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR)
a worse QLN
DS Interleaving (D:) is ON for your connection at a low depth of 19, whereas it is OFF for your neighbour's connection.

More details may be obtained from the Plink logs such as Impulse Noise Protection (INP) & delay, along with error seconds, serious error seconds, cumulative error counts etc.

What is causing the differences, could simply be your line is longer, or it has something like a slight "high resistance" (HR) issue, or it picks up more noise interference.

Your Ongoing stats would demonstrate if conditions changed, possibly at set times, during the day/night.

DLM may have detected a number of errors on your connection & restricted speeds & maybe increased SNRMargin (NOT SNR) accordingly, in an attempt to provide stability.

SNRM could be higher due to currently being capped at 40Mb (I suspect that is the real reason for the higher SNRM).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 01:59:54 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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plkitz

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Re: Comparative line stats analysis between neighbours (speed issue)
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2012, 01:07:13 PM »

The Engineer who came here took me through the route of the cables - my neighbour's line is off the same junction box as myself but he's about 50m further away (longer).

Basically, you're saying my line has 'issues' - I'll need another engineer to fix that.
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