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Author Topic: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install  (Read 25322 times)

asbokid

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2012, 12:23:52 AM »

I'm really lost over the nature of the problem..

Is this an accurate account of the history?..

You had FTTC installed on April 2.
At the time, you were not satistfied with the wiring installation in your home, nor with the performance of the FTTC service, in particular the upstream throughput.
Using the test function of several speedtest.net servers, you have measured that upstream performance to be between 4.5Mbps and 7.5Mbps.
Consequently, you requested an 'uplift' from Openreach, which was performed a few days ago.
That work has unfortunately not improved the VDSL2 performance.
You decided to unlock the ECI modem. This has gained you limited statistics on the line performance (error rates, aggregate attenuation rates, SNR, but not QLN nor HLOG).

In this thread and others, you have raised various concerns:

. the competence of the wiring that the openreach engineer carried out in your home,
. the presence of a ring wire in the master socket (NTE?) in your home
. a conflict between a HomeHub2 and the ECI VDSL2 modem in your home network
. the possibility that defective consumer wiring is creating noise which could be impacting your upstream bandwidth.

What originally prompted you to request an uplift? Your disappointment at the performance of the FTTC service which failed to meet your expectations? Were any faults actually discovered, acknowledged or repaired during that uplift?

To recap..

Your downstream rates (both attainable and actual) have remained satisfactory since installation at the beginning of April..
Your upstream attainable rate has remained constant.
your actual upstream rate has dropped from ~7.5Mbps to around 4.5Mbps, according to various speedtest.net tests.

Do you have any info on your loop? How far are you from the cabinet?  Did the engineer comment on the quality of your line during his maintenance work?

cheers, a
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ben1066

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2012, 04:09:17 PM »

The master socket is an NTE5 type, I have since removed the ring wire. All extensions are on a "bus" from this as far as I can tell. The engineer said that the internal line quality was okay since this house was new as of last summer and at that point he was getting more or less full attainable rate for the 40/10 package.

I ordered the so called 'uplift' from 40/10 to 80/20 as I was quoted 55/20 over the 40/10, I obviously took the opportunity. For a few days I had the stable readings you have seen although now my upload has began to drop even lower. Its now only 5000000kb/s attainable (the sync rate is actually HIGHER).

I am actually not sure which cabinet I am connected too. There is one cabinet however it doesn't appear to have it's FTTC counterpart. The engineer mentioned the cabinet being "just down the road" so I assume it's quite close.

I have removed the HH2 to remove all possibility of conflict, this has made no change.

Overall that is an accurate account.
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asbokid

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2012, 05:19:09 PM »

The master socket is an NTE5 type, I have since removed the ring wire. All extensions are on a "bus" from this as far as I can tell. The engineer said that the internal line quality was okay since this house was new as of last summer and at that point he was getting more or less full attainable rate for the 40/10 package.

I ordered the so called 'uplift' from 40/10 to 80/20 as I was quoted 55/20 over the 40/10, I obviously took the opportunity. For a few days I had the stable readings you have seen although now my upload has began to drop even lower. Its now only 5000000kb/s attainable (the sync rate is actually HIGHER).

I am actually not sure which cabinet I am connected too. There is one cabinet however it doesn't appear to have it's FTTC counterpart. The engineer mentioned the cabinet being "just down the road" so I assume it's quite close.

I have removed the HH2 to remove all possibility of conflict, this has made no change.

Overall that is an accurate account.

just to clarify the language we are using..

the term attainable rate or attainable net data rate (ATTNDR) is normally used to refer to the sync rate.  See the excellent glossary written by the Chief Kitizo  [1] and the G992.3 Recommendations (7/2002). [2]

the term actual rate is a more practical measurement of the number of bits per second actually available for the transport of data traffic (including transport layer overheads, etc..)

From the data you have obtained in recent days from the ECI, we can see that your Sync Rate a.k.a. ATTNDR (DS:US) is 42533120:8650125   (about 40.5Mbps UP / 8.3Mbps DOWN)

Code: [Select]
Alpha # echo "g997lsg 0 1" > /tmp/pipe/dsl_cpe0_cmd
Alpha # cat /tmp/pipe/dsl_cpe0_ack
nReturn=0 nDirection=0 nDeltDataType=1 LATN=0 SATN=0 SNR=62 ATTNDR=8650125 ACTPS=-901 ACTATP=109

Alpha # echo "g997lsg 1 1" > /tmp/pipe/dsl_cpe0_cmd
Alpha # cat /tmp/pipe/dsl_cpe0_ack
nReturn=0 nDirection=1 nDeltDataType=1 LATN=231 SATN=178 SNR=64 ATTNDR=42533120 ACTPS=-901 ACTATP=55

We don't know the length of your loop, but those are certainly not shameful figures for attainable rates.

You have also used the speedtest servers to obtain estimates of your actual data rate. That is, the net data throughput available for transporting layer 3 data (tcp/ip, udp, icmp, etc.).     
Is it the results of these tests (e.g. indicating an upstream throughput as low as 4.5Mbps) which have resulted in your disappointment?

There are questions over the value of speedtest.net tests. They tend to be inaccurate.  The same test run on 5 different servers can produce wildly different results, due to contention from different routing, varying switching capacities etc.

Do you have the command (and response) for obtaining actual data rates from the ECI modem?  That would be the most accurate measurement.

cheers, a

[1] http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats_explanation.htm
[2] http://huaweihg612hacking.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/measuring-line-characteristics-on-the-huawei/
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 08:36:02 PM by asbokid »
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Black Sheep

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2012, 07:09:22 PM »

The master socket is an NTE5 type, I have since removed the ring wire. All extensions are on a "bus" from this as far as I can tell. The engineer said that the internal line quality was okay since this house was new as of last summer and at that point he was getting more or less full attainable rate for the 40/10 package.

I ordered the so called 'uplift' from 40/10 to 80/20 as I was quoted 55/20 over the 40/10, I obviously took the opportunity. For a few days I had the stable readings you have seen although now my upload has began to drop even lower. Its now only 5000000kb/s attainable (the sync rate is actually HIGHER).

I am actually not sure which cabinet I am connected too. There is one cabinet however it doesn't appear to have it's FTTC counterpart. The engineer mentioned the cabinet being "just down the road" so I assume it's quite close.

I have removed the HH2 to remove all possibility of conflict, this has made no change.

Overall that is an accurate account.

Am not getting involved in the 'speed issues', just wanted to point out that the 'Fibre Cab' can be anywhere within 100mtrs of the existing 'Copper/Ali cab'. It doesn't neccesarily have to be sited right next to it. Just FYI. :)
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burakkucat

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2012, 10:07:20 PM »

Am not getting involved in the 'speed issues', just wanted to point out that the 'Fibre Cab' can be anywhere within 100mtrs of the existing 'Copper/Ali cab'. It doesn't neccesarily have to be sited right next to it. Just FYI. :)

That point is always worth stressing.  :thumbs:
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ben1066

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2012, 01:26:00 PM »

Since the 80/20 uplift the actual upstream rate has dropped to 5000000.
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asbokid

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2012, 02:30:10 PM »

Since the 80/20 uplift the actual upstream rate has dropped to 5000000.

and what is the attainable rate now, both up and down?

the fact that the actual upstream rate is such a round number (5000000) suggests that it is a bandwidth cap.

cheers, a
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ben1066

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2012, 05:52:25 PM »

It's now changed, again:
Code: [Select]
Channel Status Upstream Downstream
Actual Net Data Rate 4908000 kbps 38276000 kbps
Actual Interleave Delay 0 ms 975 ms
Actual INP 0 Symbols 30 Symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate 5228652 kbps 44221344 kbps
Transmit Power 115 dBm 26 dBm
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burakkucat

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2012, 08:44:27 PM »

I feel a peculiar sensation when looking at two of those lines and the claimed units --

Quote
Actual Net Data Rate         4908000 kbps   38276000 kbps
 . . .
Attainable Net Data Rate   5228652 kbps   44221344 kbps

 :-\   :help:
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asbokid

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2012, 03:41:04 AM »

I feel a peculiar sensation when looking at two of those lines and the claimed units --

Quote
Actual Net Data Rate         4908000 kbps   38276000 kbps
 . . .
Attainable Net Data Rate   5228652 kbps   44221344 kbps

 :-\   :help:

:no:  I hadn't even noticed!

The actual rates shouldn't be rounded like that, either.

It looks like some naughty programmer has done an integer divide by 1000 (why not 1024??)  on the bitrate and later a 1000x multiplication (ostensibly to restore the original unit of measure).  That would introduce the 'roundiness' to those numbers, as well as losing all that precision.

In summary, the web GUI of the ECI does not display reliable information.  The response pipe from dsl_cpe_control is the more trustworthy source of line stat data..

hmm...


cheers, a
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 04:00:41 AM by asbokid »
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openreach dude

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2012, 09:17:09 PM »

seems pretty clear to me by the description that it aint been done right.  There is no such thing as unorthodox its either done right or done wrong and that is done wrong.  Filters on a VDSL circuit, dont think so!  The SSFP should be doing all the filtering as it should be at the first (master) socket, if you've got an SSFP where an extension should be then it defeats the purpose.

I joined specifically to answer to your comment. Firstly, without seeing the work yourself you are in no position to tell anyone whether the installation was done correctly/incorrectly. Secondly  the engineer may have bypassed the main socket crimping it through to the secondary socket, making that the master. Im not even going to get into the time given for the install and amount given to the engineer on a daily basis. A little bit harsh to hang draw and quarter and engineer without getting any photo proof at least. No offence to the OP but he may know absolutely nothing to do with anything telecoms/broadband related.  Backwiring does happen when and end to end test has been done, certainly by myself anyway. And i have no early life failures or complaints.
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burakkucat

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2012, 03:53:07 AM »

Welcome to the Kitz fora, Openreach Dude.

You will have seen from that minor interaction with BBB that we are a cat and Openreach Engineer friendly site.

Unfortunately the OP never provided the requested pictures and so, to this day, no opinion has been formed (by the regular members here) regarding that installation . . .  :no:

Is there anything that you could possibly tell us -- in the Introductions forum, please -- about yourself and your area of expertise within Openreach?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 03:55:08 AM by burakkucat »
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openreach dude

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2012, 08:53:57 AM »

Welcome to the Kitz fora, Openreach Dude.

You will have seen from that minor interaction with BBB that we are a cat and Openreach Engineer friendly site.

Unfortunately the OP never provided the requested pictures and so, to this day, no opinion has been formed (by the regular members here) regarding that installation . . .  :no:

Is there anything that you could possibly tell us -- in the Introductions forum, please -- about yourself and your area of expertise within Openreach?

Hi, i have posted an intro, the site does seem to be OR friendly which is always good to see. Seems to be quite a bit of expertise on this forum as it is :)
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burakkucat

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2012, 10:03:36 PM »

Quote
Seems to be quite a bit of expertise on this forum as it is :)

You'll also find that we are willing to learn new techniques or tips.  :)
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kitz

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Re: Concerned with Openreach FTTC install
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2012, 11:29:03 PM »

You'll also find that we are willing to learn new techniques or tips.  :)

Seconded :)
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