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[roseway]

A much better plan in my case was to wait until the exchange was upgraded to 21CN-WBC and then upgrade my Zen connection to ADSL2+. I get the improved speeds and retain the excellent customer service.

[c6em]

The bit I notice for those locally on LLU is not issues with the broadband, but when the voice phone side has problems or the line simply goes dead.

I'm on BT for the phones and I ring 'em up and it gets fixed the next day and all calls were diverted to my mobile in the meantime - on the two occassions in the last x years it's failed.
For those on LLU it seems to take ages - anything up to a week.  Locally I get to hear that you can't contact x as their phones have "problems" and without even thinking I know it will be a non BT line. 

My suspicion is that the other operators have to contact BT to get them to work on the local network between the exchange and the house and BT openreach prioritise their "own" work ahead of that for the LLU lot.

[Blackeagle]

Only really ever had one issue with TT and that was when I initially moved over to them.  My line just wouldn't hold sync for more than 10 minutes at a time. Not being a fan of call centres, I had found the members forum by lunchtime & joined it (there were only about 500 members then !).  Posted my problem, got a reply back within half an hour stating that my card was running an old test profile that was very aggressive and shouldn't have been in use.  Profile was promptly changed and card reset and everything has been good for the last four-five years.

Did get some congestion issues until my exchange got gigabit backhaul, frustrating at the time, but TT got the upgrade in place within a month.

I'm probably wrong, but I don't know of another ISP that sends out kit for ordinary users to trial before it makes a decision on whether to issue it 'on masse' or not.

As an ISP I'm perfectly happy with them, but then I don't ever intend to use telephone support, which I think is the area they really fall down in.  I also agree with Kitz in that I've had people turn up on my doorstep telling me that TT can deliver 15+meg to me on ADSL2+.  Asking them my line length or what my attenuation would need to be usually made them go away 

If they are good enough for b*cat and asbokid then they are certainly good enough for me.

[burakkucat]

If they are good enough for b*cat  . . .  then they are certainly good enough for me.

   Why, thank you! 

[GunJack]

Just to chip in my tuppence-worth, I've been with tiscali/TT for years, even brought my service up here when we moved 4.5 yrs ago. Since we got onto LLU a year after we moved in here, it's been a great service. Got an intermittent line fault fixed via the forum teams, have no DLM on the line, and can run happily at 2.5-3dB snrm....what more can I ask for

[Black Sheep]

The bit I notice for those locally on LLU is not issues with the broadband, but when the voice phone side has problems or the line simply goes dead.

I'm on BT for the phones and I ring 'em up and it gets fixed the next day and all calls were diverted to my mobile in the meantime - on the two occassions in the last x years it's failed.
For those on LLU it seems to take ages - anything up to a week.  Locally I get to hear that you can't contact x as their phones have "problems" and without even thinking I know it will be a non BT line. 

My suspicion is that the other operators have to contact BT to get them to work on the local network between the exchange and the house and BT openreach prioritise their "own" work ahead of that for the LLU lot.

Hi c6em ......... regarding your 'suspicions'. There's no conspiracy here bud, it's exactly what has to happen for every Service Provider. Whetehr it's TT, Sky, AOL, Kitz Telecom ....... or BT Retail ..... they all have to raise a job with BT Openreach if they wish us to work on a circuit.

What is definitely a conspiracy is that BT Retail, or BT Wholesale prioritise the work so BT Openreach pick up their requests first. For those regulars on here, they will know that Ofcom are a major thorn in BT's side, rightly or wrongly. When 'Unbundling' of lines was first offered up approx 7yrs ago, there were months and months of negotiation laying down working practices and as you can imagine 'Equivalence' was mostly top of the agenda. That is why Openreach was formed as a seperate L.O.B. from BTr and BTw. All SP/ISP's have access to 'us' via an electronic sytem called 'NEO', it is here that tasks are progressed. Believe me when I say that there is no prioritisation of work on a SP/ISP basis. The only times tasks are given a higher bias is mainly for safety.

[kitz]

I can confirm that is indeed the case.  Something I wrote a long time ago and although some of the dept names may have changed slightly.. its still the same.   

All ISPs regardless do have to go through the same channels, its just that some are more efficient than others when it comes to dealing with BTo or BTw..  whilst some will fob off before getting BTw involved due to any charges that may be incurred.

I have on many occasions heard of BTr  (ISP staff) implying that they have more weight with BTw/BTo when it comes to trying to make a 'sale' to a new customer, but this is baloney.. and OFCOM would come down on BT like a ton of bricks if ever such a case existed where BTr was given preference over any other LLU operator.   However the telesale type BT staff who have implied this in the past has put doubts in peoples minds. 

I'll call BT when theyve done wrong, but this is one instance where BT actually have it harder than some other SP's and the rules seem to be much harser on BT for certain things...  and are stopped from doing some things that other SP's may be able to get away with. 

Maybe BS can confirm whether this is still the case, but when I spent time with a BTo guy during one of my exchange visits, the engineer had no idea who their ISP was.. it wasnt even mentioned any where on the job that came in.
They even had WOOSH facility withdrawn for a while since it was considered an unfair advantage..  even though it was basically an essential diagnostic

[waltergmw]

@ Kitz,

On the other hand I have well founded reports of positive hostility towards vendors (plural) who have attempted to install their own FTTCs.

E.g. http://www.vtesse.com/consumer-broadband/

You might also recall a quite disgraceful episode in Surrey which even now is still very far from a satisfactory conclusion.

Kind regards,
Walter

[Black Sheep]

I can confirm that is indeed the case.  Something I wrote a long time ago and although some of the dept names may have changed slightly.. its still the same.   

All ISPs regardless do have to go through the same channels, its just that some are more efficient than others when it comes to dealing with BTo or BTw..  whilst some will fob off before getting BTw involved due to any charges that may be incurred.

I have on many occasions heard of BTr  (ISP staff) implying that they have more weight with BTw/BTo when it comes to trying to make a 'sale' to a new customer, but this is baloney.. and OFCOM would come down on BT like a ton of bricks if ever such a case existed where BTr was given preference over any other LLU operator.   However the telesale type BT staff who have implied this in the past has put doubts in peoples minds. 

I'll call BT when theyve done wrong, but this is one instance where BT actually have it harder than some other SP's and the rules seem to be much harser on BT for certain things...  and are stopped from doing some things that other SP's may be able to get away with. 

Maybe BS can confirm whether this is still the case, but when I spent time with a BTo guy during one of my exchange visits, the engineer had no idea who their ISP was.. it wasnt even mentioned any where on the job that came in.
They even had WOOSH facility withdrawn for a while since it was considered an unfair advantage..  even though it was basically an essential diagnostic

Hi Kitz, apologies as I've only just read this.

Firstly, thank you for confirming my mutterings regarding 'Equivalence'. Your own post is bang-on the money about Ofcom, there really is no way anybody in our LOB would risk the slightest chance that they could get involved. It would be professional suicide, and in the first few years of being formed, we were constantly being made aware that breaking the 'Equivalence' COP, could result in losing our operators licence. It really is serious stuff.

Again, your observations are correct. In the early days we weren't made aware of who the SP/ISP was, as in reality, 'Equivalence' meant we didn't need to know ......... we just treat everbody on an equal footing. These days though, we are having to co-op more with ISP's when faulting circuits and therefore the name and cono of the company has to be made available to us. I say that with a wry grin as often, the ISP will request a co-op call, and then omit to enter any details of who they are and how to contact them.

Now then, WHOOSH. I've got a raft of e-mails saved on my works laptop all concerning access to WHOOSH and addressed to higher management. You are 100% correct Kitz, we did have access in the early days, then they revoked it as it was a BTw tool. We now have full access back and it is a god-send when working on high-volume repeat vists, or REIN-related tasks.

Cheers for the assistance in clearing up another potential myth.