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[kitz]

My question is what would be the best way to describe this situation in laymans terms ??

I wouldnt call this an IP addressing issue.  Loss of the PPP session could be an ISP related issue or something else underlying.

Their broadband connection is still up and active, but somehow they have lost their connection with the ISP.  This could be the ISP doing load balancing, or it could be an ISP problem on their pipe gateways.  Some routers have been known to cope better with loss of PPP session than others.

Loss of the IP session usually occurs at the ISP LNS (gateway).

- See this diagram http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/images/l2tpauthentication.gif

However 180 times per day - thats not right.   Something is ringing bells with a problem jeff_bb had a couple of years ago with constant loss of PPP session.  I cant recall now what the resolution was.

[kitz]

How would you describe this fault to the EU?

Although not technically correct its near enough for an EU to understand.   

Their 'broadband' actually consists of 2 connections.   First of all BT is responsible for the 1st part of their connection and acheiving sync to the exchange.  When their connection gets to the exchange BT then routes traffic on to their ISP who is responsible for connecting them to the big wide internet.

Loss of PPP usually occurs on the ISP network*

*I say usuallly, because it normally is.... Im not 100% on this, but I think there is also somewhere on BTs radius that call also cause similar symptoms.   There was a time about 3yrs ago soon after WBC came in, when some users from several ISP's was seeing frequent loss of PPP sessions.


As an aside, many, many years ago Plusnet had problems with frequent loss of PPP sessions and after investigations it was found to be a fault with one of their gateway servers.  I recall this incident because not a word of a lie, they ended up putting a highly expensive LNS in a skip outside the building (there was even a pic of it) as they only way they could seem to resolve the problem was replacing the CISCO ? router with a brand new Juniper ERX.

[coolsnakeman]

Very detailed diagram kitz lol. Usually the test id's or id will usually give you a good idea where the problem is coming from wither is within BTW's network or outside there network and more towards the SP. As standard practice in the process of elimination SP would try the test id(s) and if  this doesn't work would try resetting the network password.

Gary

[Black Sheep]

Some more good stuff there from kitz and Gary. Thank you.

Kitz, the 'Laymans terms' description you give, of explaining to the EU about 'synch and PPP', is exactly what I use on a daily basis. I was fishing for the extra info such as you have mentioned, ie- the LNS Gateway and 'load balancing', and especially the stuff Gary mentions regarding incorrect VCI/VPI settings.

I suppose it's as much for me as well, if having to make a co-op call with ISP's. I can assure you (and I'm sure Gary will back me on this) it really is a 'hit and miss' as to who you end up conversing with, as to what will be done. What I'm trying to say is, the engineer has to mostly 'guide' the way the conversation goes, and suggest what the <ahem> 'technical expert' should maybe look at.

Gary .... I know what you mean about engineers notes, and it is a bone of contention with the lads who do input good, detailed information. As a kind of 'back at ya .......' you should see the notes we get from your side of the fence though !! You would be sickened to find that communication providers (and I mean all of them), can't even give an address or an alternative contact number of the premises where the fault is. 90% of all jobs will have just two words ....... 'Dropping connection'. It doesn't state whether this is the wireless, or the synch, or the PPP, or if its when the phone is used, or when the phone rings, or whether it's only at certain times of the day. All bona-fide info that helps us along.

  

[coolsnakeman]

BS 100% agree with you there we even have trouble with some of our own advisors putting in contact names and numbers for our offline to get back to them on. With business customers there BB numbers are always a number they use with there fax machine and off course some of our advisors think this is a great contact number to our customers but guess what it ain't cause all the offline advisor gets is a fax machine well surprise surprise lol. I know what your saying about the notes you guys receive but on the defense of that sometimes most likely all the time the notes we enter into our systems the engineers never get. I have a tendency to write a flipping novel when putting notes in but i can gurantee that our systems never pass any of these notes to the engineers on the field when they are meant to. So half of this you could blame on the systems the other half i would say its just incompentence of the advisor who is just to lazy to type or even ask for any half decent contact details. All in all its always the EU that suffers because of the height of it so is it any wonder we all get it in the neck from a peed off customer lol

Gary