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Author Topic: Infinity equipment and wiring  (Read 11153 times)

bbnovice

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Infinity equipment and wiring
« on: February 16, 2012, 06:06:55 PM »

Iím preparing to migrate from Virgin ADSL to Infinity and I have a couple of questions:

(1) Has anybody had the OpenReach ďdata extenderĒ cable installed as part of their Infinity set up? Iím interested to know if you can use this cable to extend from the master socket to the VDSL modem or whether it can only be used between the VDSL modem and the Home Hub. As usual Iíve had conflicting answers from BT! The reason behind my question is that Iíve got a real issue in being able to provide power immediately adjacent to the master socket and the data extender may provide a solution.

(2) My impression (maybe incorrect) is that more savvy users often migrate from both the BT provided Home Hub and modem. Is there any consensus yet on the advisability of doing that, and if so what alternative kit is recommended? By the way I am a ďwireless freeĒ zone and have 2 PCís directly connected to the existing Netgear ADSL modem/router, plus another 2 connected via a Homeplug network.   

Thanks in advance for any advice.

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burakkucat

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 07:07:25 PM »

Hi BBN,

Somewhere, I do have an image from an official Openreach document that shows the "Data Extension Kit" being used to carry the VDSL2 signal from the SSFP at the NTE to a newly installed socket into which the VDSL2 modem is plugged. Hence it shows exactly the situation you wish to have implemented. So, in answer to your first question, there should be no problem. Just explain to the installing engineer exactly what you would like. (In parenthesis, I'll say that the "Data Extension Kit" cable is a Cat5e cable and so is perfectly capable of being used in either scenarios -- as an extension between the SSFP and the modem or as an extension between the modem and the router.)

My current knowledge is that very few (a tiny minority) users have replaced the official Openreach modem (currently classified as part of the Openreach network and not to be replaced, according to the service T&Cs) with their own devices. As for the router, you are in the "free for all" territory. Your ISP provides you with one. It is up to you if you actually use it.

In your case, as you are migrating to BT Infinity, you will be provided with a Home Hub 3. As long as it is the newer Type B, it should operate well. (I have heard that the earlier BT HH3, Type A is a bit of a "pig's ear", performance wise.)

At a personal level, if I were migrating to BT Infinity, I would say "Thank you" for the HH3 and promptly stash it away in my grotto. In its place, I would use a 2Wire 2701HGV-C -- which is also known as the Type 2 BT Business Hub, Version 3.0. Why? Because I am an enthusiast for the 2Wire hardware.  :)
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waltergmw

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 07:34:23 PM »

Gentlemen,

Quote
(In parenthesis, I'll say that the "Data Extension Kit" cable is a Cat5e cable and so is perfectly capable of being used in either scenarios -- as an extension between the SSFP and the modem or as an extension between the modem and the router.)

I have yet to see the extension kit myself but, if I am not mistaken, a cable between the SSFP and VDSL modem is terminated with RJ11 plug(s) (at least at one end) but an ethernet connection between the modem and the router requires RJ45 plugs.

On another point, should you obtain unsatisfactory speeds with the extension kit, you could first experiment with an extension power lead placing the modem as close as possible to the SSFP. If that demonstrates a reasonable improvement perhaps obtaining an extension lead for the power supply (or even a Power-Over-Ethernet) configuration you could then engineer a permanent solution for the modem to be sited by the master socket.

Kind regards,
Walter

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burakkucat

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 07:54:40 PM »

Quote
I have yet to see the extension kit myself but, if I am not mistaken, a cable between the SSFP and VDSL modem is terminated with RJ11 plug(s) (at least at one end) but an ethernet connection between the modem and the router requires RJ45 plugs.

You are absolutely correct, Walter. The "Data Extension Kit" is manufactured with an RJ11 plug at one end and the equivalent socket at the other. Openreach engineering staff have been given guidelines to modify it, according to the customer's situation / requirements.  ;)
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camallison

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 08:33:37 PM »

I had Infinity installed recently.  The "Data Extension Kit" is used to carry the VDSL2 signal from the SSFP at the NTE to a newly installed socket into which the OR VDSL2 modem is plugged on my Infinity installation.  The OR engineer wasn't too keen to run it all through the house, but was willing to allow me to "finish the job" if I did a neat job of running it.  I also used a 10m Ethernet cable between the modem and HH3 eventually as the powerline adaptors couldn't run any faster than 10Meg.

My installation is now to my satisfaction and running well  :fingers:

Colin
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bbnovice

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 12:43:02 PM »

Many thanks for the very useful feedback.

The question about RJ11 vs RJ45 plugs is perhaps why I was given conflicting information by BT about whether this cable could be used to move the modem to a position other than immediately adjacent to the master socket. I'm glad to hear from you that you that it can be used it that manner as it avoids me having to install power near to the master socket - I could install power if I absolutely have to, but it would be a tricky job due to the location of the master socket.

I'm also interested in the comments about the modem being part of the OR network and being their property as this again contradicts what I was told.  During my pre sales telephone conversation with the BT Infinity sales team I queried the "ownership" status of the modem and Home Hub. I was told by them that the equipment was mine, and that after the end of the contract period (18 months currently on Option 2) they were my responsbility to repair/replace in the event of failure.

       
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burakkucat

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 04:20:34 PM »

I can assure you that the Openreach modem is very much part of the network and, where a FTTC service has been installed, the demarcation point for the FTTC service (between "them" and you) is at the Lan 1 socket on the modem. The telephony demarcation point remains at the NTE5/A, as previous.

I've attached two images. One is of a slide dating from 2009 which shows the "Data Extension Kit". The other shows the current situation with regard to the two (VDSL2 & telephony) network demarcation points.

The only equipment that becomes your own, at the end of the contract, is the BT HH3.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 04:22:36 PM by burakkucat »
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bbnovice

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 04:31:32 PM »

Thanks B*cat

Thats very useful information and helpful pictures.

Now the question is why does BT not know the answers to these questions? On second thoughts don't naswer that!
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burakkucat

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 04:50:22 PM »

Thanks B*cat

Thats very useful information and helpful pictures.

Now the question is why does BT not know the answers to these questions? On second thoughts don't naswer that!

I could give a one word answer (numpties) to your rhetorical question . . . but I shall abide by your request and not "naswer" (sic) it!  :-X

As you appreciate, both are Openreach images. I had considerable difficulty in getting the size of the first one down under 200 kB, so as I could attach it here. I had to crop away a large portion of the slide.

Hmm, just had another "fiddle" with the image. Here it is again, take two.
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camallison

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2012, 05:06:02 PM »

Yup - I can confirm that was what was fitted here when we had Infinity installed - currently running at 37.2 Meg d/s, using Speedtest.net to measure.

Colin
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bbnovice

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2012, 06:41:20 PM »

Hi:

B*cat - I think the the image is fine.

I will shortly be ordering from BT so fingers crossed! I will miss the old Netgear ADSL router as its given sterling service and I'm familiar with its quirks but I need more bandwidth as the number of users in my house has trebled over the last month due to 2 sons returning home! In my experience Virgin has also improved their sevice immeasurably over the years - although they can still have issues. So I'm not migrating to BT with any great enthusiasm although they do already provide my phone service.

Its taken me countleass hours to identify and amend all the old VIRGIN.NET addresses before I migrate - lesson learned!!

B*cat -  Following your tip I looked on ebay regrading the 2 wire BT Business Hub and am perplexed. Some are advertised as being for ADSL (wrong surely?) and others have stern warnings about them being "locked" to BT Business Broadband only. What should I be looking out for?

   

   
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burakkucat

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2012, 09:48:35 PM »

Quote
B*cat -  Following your tip I looked on ebay regrading the 2 wire BT Business Hub and am perplexed. Some are advertised as being for ADSL (wrong surely?) and others have stern warnings about them being "locked" to BT Business Broadband only. What should I be looking out for?

It is better to search for a 2Wire 2701HGV-C, rather than a BT Business Hub. Like the BT HH3, the 2701HGV-C has both an ADSL port (to connect a telephone line to its internal ADSL/ADSL2/ADSL2+ modem) and an Ethernet WAN port (to which the Openreach modem would be connected for a FTTC service).

I've just had a quick look on eBay and have found a selection for you to consider --

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300663379874
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180818476347
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200713254180
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280826047002
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250996634168
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170784085930
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200714527216
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180822832399
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170774907459
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300661055115
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270890812817
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370584790578
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170782066354

They are all 2Wire 2701HGV-C a.k.a. Type 2, BT Business Hub, Version 3.0. The prices for the devices in that list range from £0-99 to £65-00! I would regard anything between £0-99 and £10-00 for one, brand new, sealed in box, to be a reasonable price.
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bbnovice

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2012, 02:40:19 PM »

Hi:

B*cat - Many thanks for the links which I'm folowing up. Should I b concerned about the warning on some of the hubs being offred regrading them being "locked to BT Business Broadband"?

Regards
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burakkucat

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Re: Infinity equipment and wiring
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2012, 07:27:38 PM »

Quote
Should I b concerned about the warning on some of the hubs being offred regrading them being "locked to BT Business Broadband"?

No, don't be concerned about that statement because it is: (1) incorrect (2) not applicable to the 2701HGV-C.

Why not wait and see how the Home Hub 3 behaves? It may be perfectly sufficient for your needs. If, however, you are determined to purchase a 2Wire 2701HGV-C then there should be some £0-99 bargains in that list.  ;)
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