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Author Topic: Do I have to use an ISP supplied router for FTTC connection?  (Read 5081 times)

broadstairs

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Do I have to use an ISP supplied router for FTTC connection?
« on: January 21, 2012, 08:54:13 AM »

Having been reading a bit about FTTC it seems to me that you have to have an ISP supplied router when signing up for FTTC. What bothers me is that these devices seem to be locked and the ISP/BTOR still have access to its internals. I have never used a router which I do not have 100% control over and never allow any access to its internals from the WAN side. Should I decide to go for FTTC I would want to have 100% control over the router connected to my line.

I guess my question here is does anyone know if this can be done legally within the terms of any contract?

Stuart
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AdrianH

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Re: Do I have to use an ISP supplied router for FTTC connection?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 09:01:08 AM »

BT supply a MODEM, you can use your own router, it does of course need to be compatible with the service.
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waltergmw

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Re: Do I have to use an ISP supplied router for FTTC connection?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 10:48:08 AM »

Hi Adrian H

Also note that BT are (as far as we are aware) the only CP wordwide to lock down their modem so you are officially unable to obtain the full line stats from it.
(See asbokid, bald_eagle1 et al to find a solution.)
I can't see how BT can object to a user having their own modified modem provided the original is intact as a replacement in case of fault investigations.

Kind regards,
Walter
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Do I have to use an ISP supplied router for FTTC connection?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 01:04:01 PM »

Hi Stuart,


I guess my question here is does anyone know if this can be done legally within the terms of any contract?


The FTTC/VDSL2 modem supplied by BT is usually a Huawei HG612 (one or two other different BT supplied modems have recently been noticed).

As Walter mentions, this HG612 modem is completely locked from end user access.

The modem is part of BT's equipment & remains so.

Unlocking firmware has been successfully developed that allows full access to the modem's statistics.
However, the use of such an unlocked modem will no doubt be in complete contravention of BT's terms and conditions of use.

A user may connect any router of choice to the HG612 modem.
I believe BT Infinity users are provided with a Home Hub router.
My own ISP provided me with a Netgear WNR 1000v3 router, for connection to the HG612 modem.

Other VDSL2/FTTC modems can be purchased (at great expense - 200 or so), but they do not appear to provide any improved performance over the HG612, & again, the use of such a modem would no doubt be in breach of BT's Ts & Cs.

Spare and/or unlocked HG612 modems are available via ebay, apparently at "reasonable" prices.
However, strictly speaking they are actually the property of BT, so I'm not quite sure how legal the sale of them will be.

If any modem other than the supplied & locked HG612 is used, I would imagine that BT could simply refuse to deal with any connection "faults" as they could argue that non-supplied & non-approved equipment is being used.

Notwithstanding the above comments, I believe it is a very quick & simple task to restore the HG612's original firmware, thus restoring it to its "as provided" condition.


Paul.
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broadstairs

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Re: Do I have to use an ISP supplied router for FTTC connection?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2012, 08:28:53 AM »

Thanks for all the replies. Right now I'm not sure how much benefit I'll get from FTTC, my connection at present is a rock solid 8meg connection on a line which should only get somewhere in the 6meg range, and I cant see myself needing video on demand etc so the jury is out right now.

As to my original question I dont see why suppliers provide locked devices where the user has no control, too much like 1984 to me and for me is a significant concern from a security point of view, I have never trusted the likes of BT and others and to have no access to the internal setup of such a device is a no-no for me. OK I could provide my own block by connecting via a second router but that just seems stupid.

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid about security but that's just me... :police:

Stuart
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Do I have to use an ISP supplied router for FTTC connection?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2012, 08:44:02 AM »

Hi Stuart,


Maybe I'm a bit paranoid about security but that's just me... :police:


One other matter:-

Although locked from end user access, the HG612 modem has a "back door" (in its "as installed state") for BT & possibly ISPs to access the modem (TR-069).

In theory, BT could use that access to remotely update the modem's firmware etc. although we have seen no evidence to date that they have done so.

Some people who know a lot more about this than I do have also voiced security concerns.


Paul.
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asbokid

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Re: Do I have to use an ISP supplied router for FTTC connection?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2012, 07:04:32 PM »

Arguably, the use of a TR-069 remote management interface (or "backdoor") in Consumer Premises Equipment (CPE) is incompatible with European Community law.

There is a 2002 European Directive on privacy and electronic communications. The E-Privacy Directive (2002/58/EC) contains an Article which reads, in part:

Quote
Article 5.(3) -- Confidentiality of the communications

Member States shall ensure that the use of electronic communications networks to store information or to gain access to information stored in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user is only allowed on condition that the subscriber or user concerned is provided with clear and comprehensive information in accordance with Directive 95/46/EC, inter alia about the purposes of the processing, and is offered the right to refuse such processing by the data controller.

This shall not prevent any technical storage or access for the sole purpose of carrying out or facilitating the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network, or as strictly necessary in order to provide an information society service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user.

The E-Privacy Directive is codified in national law.

In the UK, Article 5 is implemented through Reg.(6) of Statutory Instrument 2003 No. 2426 (as amended). [2]
In Irish law it is through Reg.(5) of Statutory Instrument 2003 No. 535 (as amended).   [3]

[1] http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2002:201:0037:0047:EN:PDF
[2] http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2426/made/data.pdf
[3] http://www.dataprotection.ie/documents/legal/S.I.535of2003.pdf



« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 07:23:17 PM by asbokid »
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