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Author Topic: 40+year old telephone connection  (Read 9358 times)

jeffbb

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40+year old telephone connection
« on: January 15, 2012, 07:07:38 PM »

Hi
Looking inside  a junction box on  my soon to be replaced facia I came across a surprise .The box is  an original with the letter T on the front . Inside the incoming connection only as 2 wires connected to a twin cable going into the house .   The odd thing is that the 2 connections are  1 is  White and  2 is  Orange obviously no other connections as they are connected to a twin cable to the house .
Green/white  and black  not connected but available(impossible to connect only twin going into house )  others cut short
See attached pics
everything is working OK  :)
Regards Jeff

« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 07:10:32 PM by jeffbb »
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burakkucat

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 08:39:11 PM »

Hmm.  :hmm: 

If the T on the junction box is the original British Telecommunications PLC logo, than it can not be more that about 30 years old. For Beatie was born in 1981 . . .

Then the colours of the various wires within the aerial drop-cable are quite modern. What you haven't told us is the colours of the wires within the service cable from that junction box going into your house.

I recall the aerial drop-cable to my home 40 - 45 years ago. It was in that figure of eight cross-section, with grey sheathing and tough cadmium-copper conductors. I can remember when it was installed, in the 1960s, to replace the original pair of uninsulated copper wires that ran from porcelain insulators at the top of the pole to porcelain insulators at the house.

It's a pity your photograph is out of focus, Jeff, for you have something vintage -- but not veteran nor antique!  :)
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jeffbb

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 10:56:55 PM »

Hi
The cable into the house is just like a flat twin core black cable .More like normal electrical cable
Regards Jeff

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HPsauce

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2012, 11:13:44 PM »

I recall the aerial drop-cable to my home 40 - 45 years ago. It was in that figure of eight cross-section, with grey sheathing
Mine was like that until fairly recently; presumably from when the house was built (around 1967).
As a result of some broadband "issues" I now have a modern black circular drop-wire with integral strain relief retained by a wire spiral.  8)
And a redundant ceramic-capped external junction on a wall bracket.  8)
(due to a lazy engineer I still have about 5 metres of the ancient stuff - from a sausage-like junction box under the roof down to my master socket.  :'( )
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burakkucat

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2012, 11:51:55 PM »

Quote
The cable into the house is just like a flat twin core black cable .More like normal electrical cable

I don't recognise that particular type of cable . . . I trust is is solid core, not multi-stranded. From the description, it does not read as if it is a twisted pair.  :-\
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burakkucat

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 12:02:53 AM »

Quote
Mine was like that until fairly recently; presumably from when the house was built (around 1967).

Exactly the right date for that type of drop-cable.

Quote
And a redundant ceramic-capped external junction on a wall bracket.  8)

I would be "up there" and remove the obsolete bracket, etc.  ;)

Quote
(due to a lazy engineer I still have about 5 metres of the ancient stuff - from a sausage-like junction box under the roof down to my master socket.  :'( )

As you appreciate, leaving that length of untwisted pair in circuit has provided an ideal point of ingress for any potential RFI.  :-X  If it was my line, I would give Openreach a black look and make a complaint of substandard workmanship.
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waltergmw

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 12:04:57 AM »

@ Jeffbb,

I have seen some quite old flat twin cable still in use in a mansion which used to have the phone number Ewhurst 1  !!!!!!!!!!!

If you get half a chance it would be worth persuading BT to replace the entire service with a continuous drop wire 12 cable.
I have yet to get the chance to experiment but I'd like to see if earthing one end of the steel catenary wires in a drop wire might have any effect, even though it's not a proper screen.

Kind regards,
Walter
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jeffbb

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 05:28:31 PM »

Hi
quote

The amazing thing is that my Internet and Phone  line work perfectly with it .Something odd from the master socket the cable going back looks "normal"  BT round cable . Will investigate further ,must be some other junction somewhere in the loft. ::)

Regards Jeff
 
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burakkucat

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 07:35:57 PM »

Quote
Something odd from the master socket the cable going back looks "normal"  BT round cable . Will investigate further ,must be some other junction somewhere in the loft. ::)

Please do, as you have got this inquisitive cat's attention.  ;)
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jeffbb

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 06:30:19 PM »

Hi
At long last had a chance to see what is going on .

from the pole to first box (external)  is normal multicore cable. Connected to that is standard black flat twin core cable as you might find connected to small table lamp, not  normal telephone cable  , this goes through the wall and ends up connected to another white connection box ,where the normal multicore telephone cable has been connected to it . This then goes to the master socket as normal  .
Seems a bit of a builder type  botch job ,but I cannot understand the logic of it. 
@walter
quote If you get half a chance it would be worth persuading BT to replace the entire service with a continuous drop wire 12 cable.
Not sure they would be interested (unless I paid for it ) as there is no real problem BB and phone both working OK

BTW the house was built in 1967.
Regards Jeff

 

 
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Black Sheep

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2012, 06:58:47 PM »

I know your question was aimed at Walter, but if I may add my thoughts  ??

It does indeed sound like a Heath Robinson botch job. However, you have answered your own question regarding paying for a continuous length of Dropwire. If all tests OK, then you will foot the bill. I appreciate the fewer 'joints' the better the connection (albeit negligible in the extreme in the scenario), but Openreach are not in the business of renewing cables on the whim of the EU. I don't wish this to sound obtuse jeffbb, the opposite in fact, I wouldn't want you to be told different and then be landed with a hefty bill.

As a point of note, we have had recent direction when visiting a 'Line Tests OK' (LTOK) appointed fault. This is called 'Conscious Decision To Appoint' and all SP's are aware of it. If there has been no recent fault conditions recorded against the circuit and when we visit there is no audible noise heard, and the PQT and Eclipse tests pass OK, then we move on immediately and throw in a 'Time Related Charge' (TRC). If there has been fault conditions detected recently, but these aren't prevalent when we arrive on site, we again move on immediately but without the TRC applied. We will not carry out eliminatory work anymore, ie- changing the Dropwire just in case it might be that, renewing older type internal wiring just in case it may be that ...... etc etc .

As an aside .......... Dropwire 12 that you mention would only usually be used if the wire was going through trees. It would either be DW10 or the newer single-pair DW11. HTH jeff. :)
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burakkucat

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 03:16:43 AM »

from the pole to first box (external)  is normal multicore cable. Connected to that is standard black flat twin core cable as you might find connected to small table lamp, not  normal telephone cable  , this goes through the wall and ends up connected to another white connection box ,where the normal multicore telephone cable has been connected to it . This then goes to the master socket as normal  .

Thanks for the update, Jeff.

If I discovered that type of substandard wiring at "The Cattery", I know exactly what I would do -- replace it all, from the external junction box to the NTE5/A. Having been shown the various techniques, over the years (by GPO, Post Office, British Telecommunications, BT and finally Openreach staff), I am confident that my handiwork (er, I mean paw-work) would pass as quite acceptable and non-suspicious.  ;)
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waltergmw

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2012, 09:43:35 AM »

@ B S,

I was given to understand that drop wire 12 was of a larger diameter, perhaps 0.9 mm ? Your comment about trees suggests it has a thicker sheath too ?
Or am I miaowing up the wrong tree !!!!!!!!!!!

@ BKK,

I suspect that your handiwork would also include using standard BT O components purchased quite legally on the internet thus making it even more difficult to detect any modification ?

Kind regards,
Walter

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Black Sheep

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 10:09:36 AM »

You're right, as always, Walter.  ;D

DW12 is made up of one twisted pair (2 conductors) of 0.9 mm diameter copper wires. Strength is provided by one steel, strength member. A ripcord is provided for ease of splitting the sheath. Used for power crossings up to 11 kV, and local directives generally ask that it be used if going through trees. HTH.
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burakkucat

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Re: 40+year old telephone connection
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2012, 05:08:02 PM »

@ BKK,

I suspect that your handiwork would also include using standard BT O components purchased quite legally on the internet thus making it even more difficult to detect any modification ?

Indeed, your suspicion has a high probability of being true!  ;)  However in this case, gel crimps, a reel of CW1308 specification cable and staples/cleats appear to be the only requirements.
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