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[MrsDaddyCoull]

Hi
I found this site about a week ago and have been pretty much addicted to it since lol.

My line was changed to adsl max 3 days ago and i have an ip profile of 4500

since finding this site and deciding i want a better ip profile i have managed to get my syn rate up to 6368
so now im just waiting 3 days and hoping it stays stable so my ip profile will be adjusted to 5500 (according to sam knows my line is theoretically capable of supporting a  5.5mb connection).

unfortunately i started reading a little too late and have the dmt bug so was happily playing and hitting the resync button too often.
hope the dlm wasnt paying attention 

anyway what was the question - oh yeah, how does the training period differ from after the training period is complete. I dont really get the bit about it being fixed after 10 days when its constantly changeable according to good or bad sync rates

cheers
Lisa

oh yeah and i know its probably been asked before but where o where did Kitz learn about all this, there are no other sites that even come close to the depth knowledge on this site.

[roseway]

Hi Lisa and welcome.

Sorry I'm not Kitz, but I'll do my best

'Training period' is really a bit of a misnomer. Nothing is set in stone at the end of the ten days. As you quite rightly say, the IP profile is continuously updated according to your sync speeds. As far as I know, the only thing which is actually defined by the training period is something called the 'Maximum stable rate' which is just a fault threshold value which is used to adjudicate on speed complaints. See http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm for more comprehensive information.

(I don't know where Kitz learnt all about this, but I learnt a fair bit of what I know from her )

[MrsDaddyCoull]

 
thank you for a quick reply

i followed your link - wooo complicated stuff lol
looks like my MSR will probably be set at the rate that achieved the 4500 ip profile then cos thats the lowest i have had so far.

fingers crossed it aint gonna get worse in the next few days lol

my attenuation is 45db and my SNRM is er 4.0 because i tweaked it down to get the sync rate at 6368.
the SNRM seems pretty stable tho and hasnt really dropped much, it usually just fluctuates about 0.1 - 0.3 up or down and i havent lost my connection at all yet


Lis

o and its not just Kitz that has my admiration, you all seem to know so much on this forum - thank you

[roseway]

You're doing pretty well on a line with highish attenuation.

[kitz]

Hi and welcome

Agreed - you seem to be doing pretty well for a 45dB line  
Lets hope that the SNR statys pretty stable for you.  Since you seem to be running pretty well now - Id leave your router alone for a while and let it do its own thing. 

If you start playing too much all at once then the DLM could start messing with the Target SNR - which although in theory should be configurable on request by your ISP to BTw..  the reality would appear to be that sometimes it can be difficult to get changed and stay back at the default - even if you are with an ISP that knows how to get this done. :/



>> but where o where did Kitz learn about all this

hmmm  it started several years ago when we had problems at our exchange and we had to learn a lot about adsl PDQ to "help convince" BTw that what we saying was right.  I simply collated a load of info. Then at one point I had someone from BT ringing me on a daily basis for a few weeks to collect some results from some monitoring software that was running on one of my PCs.. and in return I asked a lot of questions about how adsl worked and managed to wrangle my way into the exchange to have a look at the equipment

Since then its been trawling through any BT info, any info that my ISP (and others) gives me..  and also listening and reading a lot of whats going on in the industry.   I dont know everything - far from it - much is still a mystery and theres many that know more than me. 

Several of the guys that visit these forums are also well up on their stuff and I'm grateful for their input. I like to think of it as "team work"

PS.
Dont let "Prof Roseway's" modesty put you off either - he generally knows what he's on about and could teach me a thing or too in other techy areas. 

[MrsDaddyCoull]

Thanks Kitz

and wow i'm even more impressed now i think lol
i kind of figured you worked within the industry somehow, your knowledge seems to surpass that of other sites, its so in depth and informative.
i truely believed you must have somehow been involved in pioneering the whole adsl broadband stuff.

i guess im a mini version of you in the sense that i go on obsessive quests for knowledge when i get the bit between my teeth lol
im definately the kind of person that knows a little about a lot rather than a lot about any thing in particular tho hehehe

and yes i can see from reading through the forum that there are many knowledgeable people around here  all your advice is greatly appreciated.

i will try and be content with my sync rate and hope it stays stable, i really should stop meddling, ive had the front off the bt socket to check for no ring wires, made sure all my equipment is filtered, changed my MTU rate and of course lowered my SNRM with DMT - you've created a monster! 

[kitz]

what started it all off   - the net was always a hobby and learning tool.
When doing a foundation degree in Computing from home, I was struggling with the allowed dial up time  and was one of those that got several warnings from BT when they brought in limits thingy per month. 100 hours may seem like a lot - but doing a DLC online course and dissertation can soon eat up 3 hours per day.
Therefore I was chomping at the bit to get adsl and was one of the first to be connected on this exchange - just in time before BT terminated my contract, which they would have a month later.

>> i go on obsessive quests for knowledge when i get the bit between my teeth

definitely

...  and partially the reason why the site was started because at the time there was very little info about adsl that explained things in terms that joe public could attempt to understand.
Im pretty sure that the only other article around back then was rizlas * and I remember me and mr_chris (who was also on the same exchange + one of the other adsl campaigners) spending hours trying to piece info together with the new info we'd got from BTw.

>> you've created a monster!

Welcome - join the club 


*btw rizla - if youre reading this - I never did ask where did you get your info from? 

[MrsDaddyCoull]

what started it all off   - the net was always a hobby and learning tool.

I can relate to that lol, since having the interenet for the past five years i have the philosophy thats there's nothing i cant learn or find out
i drive everyone crazy at work because my answer to every unanswered question is to google for it

the interenet is such a friendly place with lots of people willing to share their knowledge
i've gained help with diagnosing faults with my car
changed the door seal on my washing machine from instructions on the net
followed tutorials to become compitent with the use of graphics programs
delved into the world of video formats and compression
the interenet is such a great place, i am a true addict lol

[guest]

Social engineering and knowledge I already had kitz - remember I used to do contract work for the evil empire* The short answer is that I worked out most of the top-level stuff myself and then let people chat about specific implementations when they thought I knew it anyway. Putting the draft of the guide out for "peer review" was a masterstroke in retrospect as people seemed to feel obliged to correct it as it went through revisions

The diagram I did (now missing I think but http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/howitworks/authentication.html was part of it) was worked out more or less from first principles. Some muppet at BT accused me of copying their diagrams (I didn't know they existed) so I pointed out that their diagrams were verbatim ripoffs of existing Cisco docs. He went away but seems he mentioned me to a few people as info came a bit quicker then

It was quite interesting for a time as I was on first name terms with most of the ISP Tech Directors about then - heh I spent one Saturday night explaining to whoever Plusnet's tech director was then why their shiny 34Mbps gateway was a pile of junk. He didn't believe me which given his almost total lack of technical knowledge isn't surprising - they learned the painful way I guess The most clued up was Adrian Mardlin (unsurprisingly), but probably the most effective was Mark Cook (Pipex as was). I did some encryption articles for The Caretaker's (remember him - he moved to the US back in 2004 IIRC) pipexsupport website which amusingly seem to have been used within various ISPs as part of training courses.

Ever since I first became an electronics engineer I have had a tendency to look at the whole system rather than discrete parts of it. Most good electronics engineers do the opposite, but frankly I was never that good a designer - analogue does my head right in. Systems engineers tend to be people who can't design electronic circuits

*Cisco - I used to do inline assembler for some of their routers back then. Its not necessary now but hand-tuned assembler was VERY necessary back then.

[guest]

This was from the "enhanced guide" I had planned but lost interest in. There was considerably more than this (all linked up to manufacturers specs etc) but gods alone know where that is now

Sorry about the quality - it actually looks OK rendered in a browser but its a quick rip from another program at the moment.





[attachment deleted by admin]

[guest]

Replying so as not to lose the attachment - that diagram dates from early 2003 or late 2002 I think. Ancient history in other words

[kitz]

>> since having the interenet for the past five years i have the philosophy thats there's nothing i cant learn or find out.

Indeed one of the benefits of the internet

... and as I mentioned in another thread earlier on today.... last week I was somewhere with "no nettage" and it drove me nuts that I couldnt just google something quickly when I got stuck trying to do something.

>> the interenet is such a great place, i am a true addict lol

Sadly Ive also seen some of the darker sides of the net too. - Many years ago I used to be a "guide" for what back then was one of the major names/chat channels... and even over 10 years Ive seen it evolve and attract shall I say "a different type of user".
However, I consider myself very fortunate since I have "met" some very good and genuine people. 

[kitz]

>> remember I used to do contract work for the evil empire

Ahh yes sorry forgot about that.

OMG at that link - I can remember looking at that many years ago and going WTF does that all mean?? 
lmao..  cause thats the "simplified" version compared to the BT 622 LTP authentication.

>> The Caretaker's (remember him - he moved to the US back in 2004 IIRC

Yes I do - I had wondered what happened to him since he seemed to just "vanish".  The last I heard from him was when I sponsered that sky dive thing that he did for charity... which probably was in 2004?

>> website which amusingly seem to have been used within various ISPs as part of training courses.

Funny you should mention that - several years ago I had a rather nice email from one of the Managers at BT support (way before they shipped everything out to the Indian call center), who said that he used to make his staff sit down and read my site to understand how adsl worked.
I really must update some of the stuff on there since some of it is now outdated - not surprisingly since it was orginally done in 2003 with a slight revamp in 2004..  and needs some stuff for LLU :/


Love that diagram rizla - wish there'd been something like that available in 2003 when I was trying to piece everything together. 
Dunno if you remember we were the first exchange on which contention reared its head big time and everyone (including BTw) said it was impossible.  Therefore the onus was on us to prove it was happening
iirc there was only Saffy and Ian Wild who believed what was happening + helped push it. Chris was with Zen back then, but even they werent getting anywhere.:/
At least these days BT has half decent monitoring kit in the exchanges and they dont have to rely on someone running a piece of home written software on one of their own PCS and ring up every day for the results

It was only when I found out from SFI that the typical VP backhaul only had 4Mb that truth began to sink in and saffy wrote an article on info I gave him. 
I also remember being pooh poohed big time in 2003 for predicting there would soon be problems when the 1Mb connections came out because of the info I had... and slated by some saying "no don't be stupid BT will sort it".  Wish I could remember who that was cause I'm sure you'd know the "name" (one of the BT guys). 
roflmao at what happened one month after it actually went live and the uproar that ensued whilst BT had to either upgrade the VPs or go round installing new kit in a load of exchanges (The Cisco's couldn't differentiate between 512/1Mb and had to be replaced with ERX's) .  I so wish that original thread was still available. 

ahhhhh  happy days 


-------------------------

sorry Lisa  I appear to have hi-jacked your thread and taken it a bit Off topic.
Hope you dont mind - but we're a friendly bunch and on occasions "natter" if the original question has been answered.
My intention was to do some programming tonight - but after a few (half pint) glasses of wine I dont much feel in the mood

[guest]

The Caretaker moved to Chicago where he ran (runs?) a custom PC shop. You know the sort of thing I mean - hand picked cpus/gfx cards/motherboards for overclocking, custom case spray jobs etc etc. He went in summer 2004 I think because I remember him complaining about the heat. I don't think he'd have to worry much about that in winter as Chicago is damn cold then

"Love that diagram rizla - wish there'd been something like that available in 2003 when I was trying to piece everything together."

There was - that diagram dates from 18 April 2003 To be honest you were one of the reasons why I didn't bother "publishing" the enhanced guide - you seemed to be doing a better job than me of explaining it in terms the average punter could understand The other reasons were mainly to do with apathy Oh yes IIRC Eve Online was launched in May 2003 - that ate up frightening amounts of time and was more fun than drawing L2TP tunnels 

[kitz]

>> The Caretaker moved to Chicago

Wonder if he took his cats with him

>> that diagram dates from 18 April 2003 - To be honest you were one of the reasons why I didn't bother "publishing" the enhanced guide

Doh - it was May 2003 when I was gathering info to try and find out how it all works so we had a valid argument against BT.  It was only because none of  us could find anything that did explain it that I did mine.. and thought that since Id gone to so much trouble to find out may as well put the info up 

>> Eve Online

Never really got into online gaming (aside from a brief run in with runescape).  But Ive seen plenty who do.