Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?  (Read 6715 times)

hake

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
  • Owzat! On ya way, back to the pavilion!
A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« on: October 24, 2007, 07:35:23 PM »

From the tone of discussions in this section of the excellent Kitz forums, I perceive an underlying distrust of BT.  It seems to me that BT is deceitful and incompetent.  Stuff happens at telephone exchanges, often with negative results, and the end user has to lump it or leave it.  There is no accountability by BT and therefore no incentive to do any better.

My MaxADSL performance is slowly sinking into an abyss.  In April 2006, my SAR110 router synched at 6.3mbps.  This changed after 6 months when synch suddenly dropped to 4.5mbps.  It has since been progressively falling and has now dipped below 3mbps and sometimes 2.5mbps.  BT do not appear to give a damn.  My telephone line seems to be blighted by BT having rated it at 1mbps and showing no inclination to review that.  I am 1.28km from the exchange.

All this says to me is that BT are unfit to have monopoly control over a strategically important economic resource: a vital part of this country's infrastructure (or so we are told).  How are we to progress to high speed networks as enjoyed in many competitor countries when our infrastructure owner/operator cannot even provide acceptable performance at its lo-tech end.  I do not believe that 21st century networks will happen, in the UK at least, while the present régime continues to be responsible for the débacle.

I cast my gaze at cable.  Are there any decent providers?  I like the television features in cable and BT are pushing me in that direction.  The copper loop is not up to the job any more.

:flamer:
Logged
Windows XP

fudgem

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 357
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 09:23:20 PM »

Actually I have no idea what all those facts and figures mean, and I certainly have no idea what mine are, but I have been with cable broadband since getting my first PC in 2001.  I click on the little e and google appears immediately, if I download anything I don't have to hang about waiting for it, so I'm happy.

Used to be NTL but now Virgin
Logged

mr_chris

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3774
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2007, 09:33:10 PM »

Are there any LLU operators in your area, might be woth a shot...

Have a check on http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php to see if any of hte other operators like Be or Sky or UK Online are available...
Logged
Chris

UncleUB

  • Helpful
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 29543
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2007, 06:28:54 AM »

I wish I was in a cable area,used to be b4 we moved 8 years ago,which was only 1.5 miles away.Our old house was one of the first to receive cable back in the early 90,s 1993 I think.At that time It was Yorkshire Cable who was the provider. How come some areas get it and some don't.Even in Sheffield it depends where you live.
Logged

roseway

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 43573
  • Penguins CAN fly
    • DSLstats
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2007, 06:31:35 AM »

It seems to me that there are some assumptions being made here which may not be justified. If your sync rate has plummeted there has to be a technical explanation, and not all of the possible causes are down to BT. They're an imperfect organisation but they're not responsible for everything that goes wrong.

Possible causes are:

- a line fault
- an internal wiring fault
- defective filters
- local interference

and only the first would be BT's responsibility.

In the first instance I suggest that you read http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm which gives a lot of information about diagnosing and fixing noise problems. Consider whether anything has changed locally, which could cause a large increase in interference. Disconnect your ADSL equipment from the line, then dial 17070 and select 'Quiet line test' from the menu which is read out; if you can hear audible hiss or crackling this probably indicates a line fault which you can report to BT as a voice fault (dial 150). They do take these reports seriously.

If you would like us to try to help further, then please let us see your router stats ( see http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.htm ) which will help the diagnosis.
Logged
  Eric

guest

  • Guest
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2007, 07:43:31 AM »

BT aren't the problem. Ofcom is.
Logged

roseway

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 43573
  • Penguins CAN fly
    • DSLstats
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2007, 08:45:26 AM »

Dead right.
Logged
  Eric

guest

  • Guest
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2007, 08:50:08 AM »

Just to add - anyone thinking of using NTL around here needs their head examined. Street cabs lie open for weeks with cabling strewn everywhere - next-door lost their TV, phone and internet for 11 days last month. NTL kept telling them it was being dealt with. I told them it wasn't and showed them the street cab which feeds their house. They're not techies but they understood immediately why none of their services worked :D
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33883
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2007, 09:58:21 AM »

I think the "grass is greener re cable" days may also be coming to an end.
Of late I seem to see more and more grumbles about Virgin Media.  Its a bit too early to know exactly how widespread this issue is, but it does seem to perhaps revolve around their new 20Mb service and the impact its had on the network for others.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

hake

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
  • Owzat! On ya way, back to the pavilion!
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2007, 11:42:01 AM »

BT are responsible for 2.9km of copper wire to my house.  Corrosion, aluminium connectors and a generally hostile environment make it far more likely that the fault is on the BT side rather in my house where a mere 20 metres of copper wire in a dry non-hostile environment is under my responsibility.  I have a vested interest in my cable plant.  Those who work on it on the BT side have no personal interest in whether or not my particular line works well or works at all.

Like many, I am acutely sensitive to wool being pulled over my eyes.  We are cynical with much justification.  Customer support is, with some exceptions (like my ISP PlusNet which appears to have good people), populated by ignoramuses whose technical knowledge appears to have been acquired during nursery education.  I doubt if they have even heard of Ohm's Law, let alone what it means.  That seems to be general in the UK where people do useless things like wealth management rather than wealth creation (we lost more than a car company when Rover was sold for a pittance with government connivance - the Chinese ran rings round us).

I am 58.  Me and many of my peers had to get real because our elders and betters knew what they were doing and taught us to know what we were doing and made damned sure that we did (or else).  Standards of conduct in the work place were higher; ethics and the like.  You could much less easily pull the wool over eyes 30 years ago and back.

Rover is China's gain.  How else could the Chinese acquire an off-the-shelf regulation conforming automotive engine (the K-series) for a song when otherwise they would have to have spent £700 million to develop their own?  We gave it to them!  No wonder the UK is going down the tubes.  Sovereignty is predicated on the ability to do things for yourself.  Making things is key to that.  Otherwise, we become helpless and a doormat for China and the rest.

We concrete over flood plains and then moan about flooding.  We are quite mad.  We are contemptuous of agriculture - we allow our farmers to become ruined.  Do we really want to eat?

I look to France, a nation which is still able to produce magnificent technology and its own food!
Logged
Windows XP

roseway

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 43573
  • Penguins CAN fly
    • DSLstats
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2007, 12:00:19 PM »

Well, I'm sure that's all very interesting hake, but it remains a fact that there are several possible causes for your loss of speed. Do you want help with sorting it out?
Logged
  Eric

guest

  • Guest
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2007, 12:06:25 PM »

Is it worth pointing out that it really isn't in BT's interests to upgrade the local loop while Ofcom (currently run by ex-cable execs) dictate the price BT can charge for access to it?

Or alternatively that a plc's duty under the law of England & Wales is to the people who own it. Everything else is secondary?

Or perhaps that BT actually have the widest availability of ADSL in ANY EU country?

I suspect not at this point :)
* rizla potters off to get popcorn :P
Logged

hake

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
  • Owzat! On ya way, back to the pavilion!
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2007, 06:54:41 PM »

Sorry about that chaps.  I'm back on the medication.   :help:

For therapy, I also read this weeks Micro Mart and felt better after reading the ISP comparison feature (starting page 72).  PlusNet is a very good ISP and the experiences related put thing in perspective.

I would like a few hints about a problem.  I give tech support to my wife's two sisters (no, my name is not Homer Simpson) for their computers.  I recently got them onto a MaxADSL connection (with PlusNet of course), wiring their houses so that they can share one connection (they live in adjoining houses).  It works OK except that the DSL connection seems to drop.  The BT Voyager 2100 router I have supplied to them is a known good one because I tried it myself  before reinstalling it in its intended home.  It kept a DSL connection up for ten days continuously (no reboots, no reconnects) on my own MaxADSL connection.   Downstream bandwidth is presently 4mbps.  Good quality micro-filters are in use.

The Voyager 2100 has a web based feature which allows a user to reconnect DSL when it has dropped without the need to power the router off then on again.

I am not deeply versed in troubleshooting this sort of problem.  My own ADSL performance gripes do not extend to reliability which has always been excellent.

Logged
Windows XP

roseway

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 43573
  • Penguins CAN fly
    • DSLstats
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2007, 11:32:27 AM »

If the connection is unstable it will probably be due to one of the causes I mentioned above in reply #4. I'm not familiar with the Voyager 2100, but most ADSL routers will reconnect automatically after a connection drop, and you certainly shouldn't need to reboot the router every time.

To get a better idea of what's happening we would need to see the router stats as shown in http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.htm
Logged
  Eric

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33883
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: A polemic: ADSL ruined by BT. Is cable better?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2007, 11:55:24 AM »

As eric said have a look at the line stats, the drops are possibly due to lowSNR margin/ long line.

The 2100 aint a bad router I use one myself and specifically bought it because of some of the features.
It has the same chipset (broadcom) as some of the newer netgears - therefore theres a few tools available that work with it such as DMT tool.  You can also use MRTG to monitor your stats, but tbh unless you fancy messing around with perl modules not worth it.  There a nice little tool called routerstats that I managed to fairly easily get working with the 2100 which allows you to monitor and graph the stats.

Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker
Pages: [1] 2
 

anything