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Author Topic: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet  (Read 11150 times)

adam25185

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DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« on: October 11, 2011, 08:44:06 PM »

I have recently upgraded my modem to a Netgear DG834G and purchsed new ADSL Microfilter ADSL Nation XF-1e. As a result my ADSL no longer disconnects frequently, however there are still problems: the connection will sometimes grind to a halt for 20-30 seconds (without actually disconnecting).

Firstly, by checking, I believe this is associated with times with poor SNR Margin. Is this reasonable?

I would therefore like to adjust the SNR Margin target. I realise this will lead to a slightly slower connection, but I would be willing to lose a couple of megabits in order to achieve stability reliably.

I'm looking at the following page:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/dg834GT_targetsnr.htm

I've tried to connect to the router using telnet (command used "telnet 192.168.0.1") however I get the message "Could not open connection to host, on port 23: Connect Failed".

Clearly in the forum, there are some people with the DG834G managing to use this procedure:

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=5195.msg118218#msg118218

Can anyone see where I'm going wrong?
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burakkucat

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2011, 09:59:10 PM »

What version of DG834G do you possess, Adam?

I used to use a DG834Gv5 and it was perfectly simple to access it via telnet once it had been put into debug mode.

http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug
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roseway

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2011, 10:33:27 PM »

You can't tweak the noise margin on the DG834Gv5. You need a v4 for that. Another good option is to get an ex-Sky DG834GT (if they're still available).
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adam25185

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 10:55:03 PM »

I changed the SNR Margin so it's now 12db, nevertheless it seems that these slowdowns for a few minutes to just a few kbps persist. I really have no idea what can be causing it?  :(

Is there any merit to changing my ISP, I'm currently with Demon?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 10:59:51 PM by adam25185 »
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burakkucat

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 11:51:48 PM »

You can't tweak the noise margin on the DG834Gv5.

I trust you didn't think I was implying that, Eric:no:

I was attempting to get the "full picture" from Adam, so that those with greater knowledge of the tweaking process could then "take over". It did seem to me, from my reading, that there initially was a problem in establishing a telnet connection to the device. ;)
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2011, 12:26:26 AM »

I changed the SNR Margin so it's now 12db, nevertheless it seems that these slowdowns for a few minutes to just a few kbps persist. I really have no idea what can be causing it?  :(

Is there any merit to changing my ISP, I'm currently with Demon?

If throughput stops completely for a few moments and then recovers, then it may be a deficiency of your router, wiring or line, as the slowdown might coincide with a drop in connection and/or a burst of errors.   But if it simply slows to a few kbps, which lasts for some time,  it is more likely to be traffic management, or simple congestion, within your ISP.  In that case,  tweaking the target noise margin won't help  in the slightest.

You could install routerstats and monitor your line to try and prove it one way or the other, but the fact you are with demon makes me deeply suspicious.   Demon have long-since had a traffic shaping policy, they have also recently adopted a tactic of 'prioritising' business traffic.  In other words those who pay more get better throughput.  But there's only so much bandwidth in the melting pot so, in order to create the bandwidth to 'prioritise' business users, it would appear that they must be wilfully impeding traffic from other subscribers.  I am also with demon, and it is not at all unusual for throughput to drop to modem speeds (say, 50kbps) at busy times of day.

Personally, I am unable to escape from demon as many websites (some of which I care about) still link to my old ----demon.co.uk website, despite the fact I changed it to a non-demon ---.com address many years ago.  Similarly, people still send mail to my ----.demon.co.uk address. despite having long since got my own ----.com.  If it were not for that, I'd have dropped them like a hot potato years ago.  That is, of course, just my opinion.  :)
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roseway

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2011, 07:11:58 AM »

I trust you didn't think I was implying that, Eric:no:

Sorry, I misunderstood your comment. :)
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adam25185

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2011, 08:37:19 AM »


You could install routerstats and monitor your line to try and prove it one way or the other, but the fact you are with demon makes me deeply suspicious.   Demon have long-since had a traffic shaping policy, they have also recently adopted a tactic of 'prioritising' business traffic.  In other words those who pay more get better throughput.  But there's only so much bandwidth in the melting pot so, in order to create the bandwidth to 'prioritise' business users, it would appear that they must be wilfully impeding traffic from other subscribers.  I am also with demon, and it is not at all unusual for throughput to drop to modem speeds (say, 50kbps) at busy times of day.



I will leave routerstats running today. I'm not quite sure how to expand the scale of the SNR Margin graph to show the entire day's statistics.

It does seem however that the router just slows down to virtually nothing rather than actually disconnecting. I mainly use it in the evening, so I don't know whether it can be business traffic at this time?

I'm looking at http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/caps.htm and I don't see any traffic management for Demon?

What is a good ISP? Are Sky Broadband any good?
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2011, 09:28:31 AM »

Quote
I'm looking at http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/caps.htm and I don't see any traffic management for Demon?

One way to (quite spectacularly) expose demon's traffic shaping used to be the TBB speed tester.  That allows you to choose different TCP ports for the test.  If the two different ports give widely different throughputs, them the only explanation would appear to be traffic shaping.  See kitz's post in a thread on the subject from some time ago (shame kitz's link no longer works).

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,4449.msg104923.html#msg104923

That said, I have just tried the TBB speed tester and no longer see evidence of traffic shaping.  That may mean they no longer do it, or it may just mean they are getting cleverer, so that it doesn't show up in the speed tests.  It may also be different later in the day, try it yourself when throughput is slow... run it once with default settings, then again with the port 80 box ticked.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html

Whatever the explanation, I see exactly the same symptoms you describe on my own demon connection, occasional slow downs to pathetic throughputs.   The upgrade to 'business 2+' (with prioritised traffic)  doesn't cost that much more than the basic package.  It also gets UK support (not Indian) so I'd have gone for it, but unfortunately I don't have adsl2, and the only demon product that offers prioritisation of DSL Max is about twice the price.






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adam25185

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2011, 10:18:17 AM »


Whatever the explanation, I see exactly the same symptoms you describe on my own demon connection, occasional slow downs to pathetic throughputs.   The upgrade to 'business 2+' (with prioritised traffic)  doesn't cost that much more than the basic package.  It also gets UK support (not Indian) so I'd have gone for it, but unfortunately I don't have adsl2, and the only demon product that offers prioritisation of DSL Max is about twice the price.

I'm looking at the page:

http://www.demon.net/broadband/business-broadband/demon-business-broadband-2

So do you know if this would prevent all slowdowns or just 'during busy times'? Is there a way to tell for definite that I have ADSL2+? On my bill have have ADSL 2+ so I assume I do?
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2011, 10:35:12 AM »


Whatever the explanation, I see exactly the same symptoms you describe on my own demon connection, occasional slow downs to pathetic throughputs.   The upgrade to 'business 2+' (with prioritised traffic)  doesn't cost that much more than the basic package.  It also gets UK support (not Indian) so I'd have gone for it, but unfortunately I don't have adsl2, and the only demon product that offers prioritisation of DSL Max is about twice the price.

I'm looking at the page:

http://www.demon.net/broadband/business-broadband/demon-business-broadband-2

So do you know if this would prevent all slowdowns or just 'during busy times'? Is there a way to tell for definite that I have ADSL2+? On my bill have have ADSL 2+ so I assume I do?

I wouldn't like to speculate the degree of improvement you'd see from a prioritised business account, it'd be a case of suck it & see.  But when I discussed it with a sales rep, he did encourage me to think I'd see improvements (until we realised it wasn't available to me).  Note also that they'll likely offer shorter contracts for a small increase in premium, if you don't like the idea of 24 month ties (I don't).

Meanwhile, I'd carry on with RS plots to investigate whether your problems may be local.  Unfortunately I'm not a great user of RS, not installed anywhere at the moment, so not the best person to advise on that aspect.  I seem to recall you can configure it to take a series of snapshots through the day, and save away the screen images a nominated folder, but I don't know the details.  There may be other ways too.
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jeffbb

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2011, 10:44:46 AM »

Hi
your router stats should show your current package +all other useful information for troubleshooting .
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php can you post your stats ?

quote I will leave routerstats running today. I'm not quite sure how to expand the scale of the SNR Margin graph to show the entire day's statistics.

in the configuration you can set up the sampling rate and the number of samples per page.
see the on line help or you can use the help provided with RS
http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/routerstatshelp/routerstatshelp.htm
select configuring graphs ,on the second Common settings page you will see the points per page when you increase this the time per page increases ,there is a relationship between "points per page "and the "sample every" options so a little experiment watching the displayed time will allow you to display any amount of data per page .
Regards Jeff
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2011, 10:50:45 AM »

@Jeff, thanks for helping re RS.   :)


PS: re demon business... 
If thinking about taking a demon business account, read the T&C carefully as there many differences between 'consumers' and 'business' users, including the all-important indemnity clause.  But I'm not sure whether opening a 'business' account would necessarily make you a business user, in so far as the contractual terms seem to relate to the activities of the user, rather than the name of the package.   Nor have I ascertained whether they actually ask for any evidence that you are running a business.

I did find the sales rep quite friendly and helpful, so don't be afraid to just call and chat to them...
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adam25185

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2011, 01:03:33 PM »

I'll set up Routerstats when I get home and post the graph tomorrow. I'm pretty sure it's not related to the SNR as I said, since I have increased the SNR margin manually, and I was at 12db SNR margin last night when it couple of minutes of slow connection.

When I say slow connection I mean the broadband speed drops to only 50-300kbits/sec. This usually lasts a couple of minutes as I say.
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jeffbb

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Re: DG834G Target SNR Using Telnet
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2011, 05:04:32 PM »

Hi
quote I'm pretty sure it's not related to the SNR as I said, since I have increased the SNR margin manually,
You would NOT expect SNR margin to affect throughput unless it was so low that you were generating lots of CRCs (errors needing retransmissions ).
Can you post your Router stats ?
Regards jeff
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